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Still at home in D.C.

Aug 21, 2011, 3:53 AM EDT

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Hunter Pence rounds third to resounding cheers from the Philly faithful.

The largest crowd in Nationals Park history stood and applauded in anticipation of the evening’s final out. And when the batter tapped a routine grounder and the first baseman stepped on the bag to complete the 5-0 shutout, the vast majority of those in attendance roared with approval and serenaded their triumphant team off the field.

If only all of this had been directed toward the home ballclub instead of the visitors from 134 miles up the road.

Yes, the Phillies invaded South Capitol Street once again Saturday night and pummeled the Nationals into submission. This, of course, was nothing new. The soon-to-be five-time NL East champs have been dominating their division rivals for years, and they’ve been doing it in front of their own faithful so many times, the locals have lost count.

Something about this scene, though, felt different than any previous occasion. For one thing, the announced paid attendance was 44,685, a new ballpark record that shattered the previous mark (41,985 on June 25, 2009 against the Red Sox).

Then there was the gross disparity between supporters of the two teams. As that final out was being recorded on Danny Espinosa’s groundout, the stadium remained 85 percent full, and 90 percent
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  1. NaterialGuy - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:22 AM

    this is BS. The Nats fans outnumbered the fillies. We just had nothing to cheer for. Stop playing up this angle.

  2. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:22 AM

    Lerners love money. Do they love DC?

  3. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:25 AM

    @ NatGuyYou failed math. Do you have a tumor?

  4. Grandstander - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:32 AM

    Many Nationals fans, repulsed by the invasion, swore they'd never return for another one of these matchups and in doing so only encouraged Philly fans to keep showing up by the busload every time their team returned to town.Haven't been to a phillies game since OD 2010 and probably won't be to another until they forget they have a team in another few years. FO needs to address this problem next year. Offering promos to try and increase home attendance ain't cutting it. They need to suspend group sales for these games.The Mets suck just as bad as us but there's no takeovers of Citifield when the phillies come to town. And when they do come they're overmatched and kicked out by ushers.I really hope Mark Lerner was at the game tonight and saw what happens when you let that crap happen. He seems to get it and I hope tonight was a signal that something needs to be done.You'll sell them tickets, but you don't have to run out the red carpet for em. Wonder how many Ian Desmond dolls are on the side of the highway as we speak.

  5. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:50 AM

    it was easily 90% phillies fans in attendance and they were all horrible. drunk nasty self-disrespecting an absolutely terrible experience

  6. Drew8 - Aug 21, 2011 at 6:22 AM

    At Spring Training, visiting with the fans who travel with their teams contributes to an enjoyable experience.Maybe it's the sunshine, maybe it's the Snowbirds, but it's a gentle ribbing, a kibitzing. After a couple of innings, a dog and a beer, it leads to banter and applause when your worthy opponent makes a fine play.You'll say to the guy in the Tigers hat:"Hey, this kid you've got in center, Austin Jackson, looks pretty special.""Yeah," he'll say. "And you guys have a keeper in that Jordan Zimmermann."What's the word I'm looking for here. Oh yeah. It's "fun."A bunch of drunken louts at Nats Park doesn't strike me as fun. I'm sure I'll see the Nats play the Phillies someday. But it might be in Viera.P.S. Anon: Can you lay off the "Lerners love money" garbage?You well know that it's freighted with ugliness and it's uncalled for. Knock it off.

  7. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 6:27 AM

    Prove the theory wrong, sensitive Drew8. Can't be done.

  8. Drew8 - Aug 21, 2011 at 6:44 AM

    I could give you 126 million reasons but you still wouldn't get it.Meantime, the Anonymous tag makes you a bit too hard to discern.You need a more fitting handle.How about Ricky Reichardoor Kristallnacht Gayleor Goebbels and Bitsor What Can (Eva) Braun Do For You?

  9. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 7:35 AM

    Give me a break! Not everything is shrouded in thinly veiled antisemitism you slanderous fool. Yes Virginia even the Lerners can love money without you lowering yourself to that cliched, knee jerk "counter argument." How dare you, you apologist! And back on the topic, how dare the Nationals encourage group sales to Phillies fans? Three guesses – money money money. Not much fun to be a Nats fan in your own home park and feel like an outcast. Ted Leonsis has class and demonstrates loyalty to his base.I will not respond to your nonsense again Drew8 – which must be your birth name right? Keep criticizing others – you are just as anonymous.

  10. Adamnational - Aug 21, 2011 at 10:46 AM

    #phuckphilly.

  11. Dave - Aug 21, 2011 at 11:23 AM

    I'm with Grandstander. The solution is, make it as hard for the Philadelphia people to get these tickets as it was for any local who wanted to walk up to the box office last night.I don't know whether they're still doing target marketing to the Philadelphia market, but the line to get into the Potomac Avenue gate (which was Philly bus people) stretched way around the stadium at about 5:55 yesterday. That's not just casual walkups. That's group sales, which are coordinated by a group sales office. They ought to exercise a little control there and act as gate-keepers.

  12. JayB - Aug 21, 2011 at 11:39 AM

    I have been to a number of these and Opening day was still the worst day in Nats history. Mark still maintains it was less than 35% Phils fans…He was wrong by a ton then…easily 70% Phils that day and last night….90% is a fair guess….BLAME….Stan K caused this in two ways….by encouraging it with an agressive marketing plan to make it happen including visits to Philly Radio to invite them and having Group sales cold call them….but more damaging was his low budget encouragement of natural Lerner cheapness for those 5 years. That more than anything set this team back with the fans…..lucky those days are over and Stan is gone. Nats will finish with a better record than CLE and ahead of Mets and Marlins. Next year this team wins 90 games.

  13. sparks - Aug 21, 2011 at 11:40 AM

    Anon @ 3:35, you're such a dope. After two paragraphs responding to criticism, you then type "I will not respond to you nonsense". Pretend to take the high road. You're so above us. Lerners love money. What does that mean? Nothing. And it was Kasten who did this, the Lerners had nothing to do with it. Kasten went to Philly and got on the radio letting them know how close and convenient we were, that if they had trouble getting tickets to see their Phils they would be welcomed in DC. Kasten oversaw group sales which went out of their way to sell huge blocks of 2010 OD seats to Phlly groups. Kasten's group sales folks were praised by the guys who were buying 500+ tickets each ("They are so cooperative and easy to deal with. They Mets groups sales people make it a hassle, but the Nat's group sales people are just great.")This ain't the kind of thing you lay on one person, but if you did, it would clearly be StanK.

  14. JamesFan - Aug 21, 2011 at 11:41 AM

    I don't blame the Phillies fans for supporting their team or the Lerners for selling tickets to a game. When the Nats are competitive, the seats will be full of Nats fans. This argument is tiring and leads to nothing.

  15. dale - Aug 21, 2011 at 11:58 AM

    What was Bo Porter thinking? His choices were 1) bases loaded and one out or 2) wave Zim home with the ball already in Mayberry's glove. Porter was not thinking tactically (runner's chances were about zero unless the throw was bobbled) or strategically (go for the big inning). Could Porter have been influenced by the raucous Philly crowd into a desperate decision? Davey graciously defended Porter's gaffe after the game.

  16. Dave - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:04 PM

    @dale, you have to hand it to Mayberry. If that throw hadn't been a bullet right to Ruiz's mitt, Zimm would've been safe. Even just a bit off-line would've done the trick.

  17. LoveDaNats - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:04 PM

    I went to the game Friday night. I had vowed never to go back after OD 2010, but thought "how bad could it be?" There were well over 75% Phillies jerseys. We were in the Diamond club which was also overrun. On the menu that night? Philly cheese steaks. It's bad enough they take over the park, much less we gotta fix their favorite food for them. How bad could it be? Pretty bad. I'm done.

  18. LoveDaNats - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:06 PM

    The win was nice, though.

  19. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:18 PM

    It's hard to have a bad day at the ballpark, but opening day 2010 was horrible, and I won't go to the Phillies again. I feel like "my" team has abandoned me by inviting these boors to "our" house. They asked for Phillies fans' money, they got what they wanted. I'm a pretty PC guy, but the antisemitic angle had eluded me too. I think that the dollar chasing is simply factual. I think I knew the Lerners were Jewish, but I never related it to baseball or anything else.

  20. dale - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:33 PM

    Dave,I looked at Porter's wave home of Zim in terms of risk/reward. If Zim stayed on third with one out and the bases loaded he could have been brought in with a higher chance of scoring with Espinosa at bat. Secondly, I would prefer the third base coach wave the runner if he has a chance to actually beat the throw home, not to depend on an errant throw (from a reliable left fielder). As it turned out, the results were deflating, leaving the closest runner on second with two outs. Davey has stated that he prefers the big inning style of offense as opposed to the style of risk taking championed by Riggleman. If this occured in the seventh inning or later and the scored was tied I would agree with sending Zim on the outside chance of one run being scored.

  21. sporks - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:36 PM

    Yeah, right wing Christian televangelists don't love money. It's a Jew thing. What the heck has this degraded to?LoveDaNats, Philly Cheesesteaks in the Diamond Club? That's interesting. Shrimp and grits when ATL comes to play?

  22. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:44 PM

    First of all these fans DO NOT travel 134 miles home after the game. They live right in the DC area. They are FRONT RUNNERES and will root for whomever is first. This proves their low character. I have gone to Philly to support the Nats and Skins. I will not do it anymore because I truly worry for my safety as well as my family. I also will never attend any eveny in DC when Philly is in town. Why would anyone want to spend there free time with a bunch of ANIMALS!!!

  23. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:45 PM

    Well, slept on it. I'll go today. Won't like it, but I'll go. It's not only the buses, they take over the Metro, too. They're in my neighborhood, they're crawling all over this city.On the escalator up from the Metro, listening to the "Let's go Phi-i-i-lies" was bad, so when they took a breath, I entertained them with a solo of "GO NATS GO." Got some smattering of applause and appreciation even from them… Gonna drive today. I dawdled FOREVER in the team store, walked the long way around to the far entrance of the Metro, waited for the second train and still got mobbed by them in L'Enfant Plaza station. Escalator was broken and I took my time walking down, really took my time.

  24. Richard - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:49 PM

    The Philadelphia invasion of Nats Park is an indictment on two fronts. First, of MLB, which allows money to dominate, to buy a winning team, which Philadelphia has done — and the Nats are trying to follow suit with the Werth contract. So we have no reason to complain and most of us are not complaining on that front. Second, it's an indictment of us, the Nats fans. We should buy more of these tickets and attend. I'm as guilty as anyone. I've shamefully avoided Philadelphia games when selecting my tickets during our season ticket distribution and for the other games I attend. I/we should start a word-of-mouth campaign to buy these tickets and attend these games, call it the "Take Back the Park" campaign — or some such. Anyway, it'll have to be word-of-mouth 'cause the Nats surely won't help. Granted, it'll be a hard fight. We're two hours from big spending, hardcore Philadelphia and we're a transient area. Lots of people go to Nats Park to cheer for the other guys. So I wonder if "Nats Town" is that kind of baseball place? But witness the Caps fans … and Redskins, although re the latter, Steeler fans recently made impact at FedEx. Anyway, here's one commitment at least.

  25. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:56 PM

    Why shouldn't we invite and love the Phillies? We wear their RED, when we should be in NAVY BLUE. Since the Nats came to Washington, with Jim Bowden, he or the Learners put us in Cincinnati's uniforms. Just check them out! Washington in RED, with our injuries must represtent the RED CROSS or we don't want to forget the Stadium was built in the RED LIGHT DISTRICT part of DC.So be true and put on your blue! Change those Phillies and Cincinnati uniforms.

  26. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:56 PM

    Doesn't anyone in the bullpen speak Spanish? Or they don't like Henry? Or he prefers to sit up in a corner by himself? Feel bad for the guy, no jersey for him in the team store that I could spot. (Plenty of Marquis jerseys for 1/2 price, get 'em while you can.)Well, I figure, if I can love the team for 102 losses, I can love 'em today.

  27. Another_Sam - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:58 PM

    JamesFan — right on, on all counts. Professional sports[an oxymoronic term anyway] including baseball is the entertainment business, just like movies. One can't begrudge the club for selling a ticket; you can't begrudge a fan for buying a ticket. With the price of a ticket you [and me] buy the right to cheer for whoever we want.Play ball.

  28. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 12:59 PM

    Anon 8:56. Good idea! I wore my navy blue Nats cap yesterday and I do have a blue jersey. You just decided me my outfit.

  29. Gonat - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:02 PM

    For 9 games a year, we have to put up with it until Nats fans take back their ballpark in large enough numbers to not make it WERTH it for these Philthies to travel to DC.

  30. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:05 PM

    Richard, I must reiterate my above point to you. I will not spend my time and $$$$ to spend my evening with a bunch of low class HYENAS (philly fans.) Not when there are plenty of other non Philly games I can attend and truly enjoy myself around real classy Nats fans and not HYENAS.

  31. Gonat - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:06 PM

    Anonymous said… Lerners love money. Do they love DC? August 21, 2011 12:22 AM ______________________________That was CBinDCs ugly message the other day, now it is just Anonymous.

  32. sunderland - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:11 PM

    A big part of what causes the Philly invasion is that their team is so good. It means fans have a hard time going to game in Philly (sold out the past 2 years, since July 6, 2009). It's actually cheaper to buy 4 tickets and pile your buddies in a car and drive down here than it is to buy 4 tickets in Citizens Bank Park. And the Philly fans feel good about their chances of winning here. All of this plays into it.So two things have to happen. The Nats improve and the Phillies age. And both are happening. Phillies could likely always be the best road attendees in NatsTown. They are close, there are tons of transplants from the Philly region and plenty of Philly fans living amongst us (it's true).But this too shall pass.

  33. Joe Seamhead - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:12 PM

    Damn! I ain't getting into the stupid antisemitism garbage, because my matra is never argue with a fool because you only come to their level and they have a lot more experience at it,That said, I go to any Philly-Nats game that I possibly can. Why? Well, after the Senators left town, I became a pretty devout follower of another team, but all the time waiting for another DC baseball team. I swore that if we ever got another team that I would never wear another team's colors again. I am a hard core Nationals fan that has a "not in our house" chip on my shoulder, and I go down there and cheer hard, and loud for the Nats. My wife wears her Nat's Werth shirt, gets a boatload of [mostly] good natured crap from the Phillies fans. Most of the fans are just like me, in that they are baseball fans cheering for their team. Now, I resent that a huge percentage of the crowd is booing our guys and cheering for the other guys. But you know what I resent more? I resent Nats "fans" that say they won't go to anymore Philly-Nats games because they're outnumbered by South Philly trash,making the game day un-pleasent. Folks, we need to buy the tickets ourselves and go.Don't let the s.o.b.'s take what is ours.GYFNG!

  34. sunderland - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:14 PM

    So does anyone know what has happened in the stadium that we could fit almost 3,000 more people than we could before? How could yesterday have 2,500+ more people than previous sold out games?

  35. sunderland - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:15 PM

    I really like Joe Seamhead.

  36. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:19 PM

    Didn't we have a $1 or $2 or $5 ticket special going for Saturday night's game? Question for the FO: Why run a special when the Phillies are in town when you KNOW they're gonna show up anyway? If you're trying to encourage our fans to go, IT AIN'T WORKIN!I'm sure there wasn't 35k Phillie fans there last night. They are louder than we are and it was a losing night. Had the game been close, you would've heard our fans.

  37. sjm308 - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:23 PM

    Couple of thoughts As I mentioned yesterday, I am guessing its where you sat as to how bad it was. 308 had phans that cheered for their team but not drunk or obnoxious. I honestly think it was at least 75% phillies last night. I am one of many on here that committed to never going to another philly game after opening day but I had relatives who had never been so I caved. Again, I realize how bad these idiots can be but luckily for our group it was just like someone described spring training. Zimm was praised and so was our park. One point not being made, IF we had won, how great would that have been to see all those people with their heads between their tails heading back up 95? Someone said they were from here and I guess of the 30,000+ in philly gear a good number were but that happens in this stadium on a regular basis. Its one of the neat things about this town. We have people from all over. At the Reds game I saw lots (not thousands but lots) of Reds gear. Why wouldn't you want your owner to try and be successful? They have shown a willingness to start and spend money. I hate what last night was all about but if the Lerners continue to make money AND put that back into their product then we fans are ultimately the winners. They spent 126 million on Werth, over 16 million on the draft and why do you think they won't continue this trend? They certainly can't if we are drawing 15,000 like the team north of us.Hoping Wang will send our fans home happy and the others miserable.

  38. sjm308 - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:27 PM

    put me on the joeseamhead fan club as well – I am going to have to rethink my philly philosophy

  39. Big Cat - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:28 PM

    Hey, we are only 4 games under .500, have young guys on the rise. The Phillies grow older by the day. We are already very competitive with them and they know it. Would love to see Wang let one of his sinkers get away from him and "accidentally" bury itself in Utleys ribs….or Howards for that matter

  40. Jim in MD - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:32 PM

    A possible solution? Suspend beer sales after the second inning to anyone wearing Phillies gear. Given the huge mark-up on beer, the Nationals would be cutting off one of their most biggest money makers, so that's not gonna happen. But something needs to be done to spare Washington fans the indignity of trying to cope with out-of-control, foul-mouthed, drunken barbarians invading their home. The Nats promote a "family atmosphere" but they turn their heads when it comes to enforcing alcohol sales to the inebriated. If they were a bar, the ABC Board would fine them heavily.

  41. Joe Seamhead - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:38 PM

    To Richard said:HERE, HERE!!!I raise my glass in a toast to you, and your words, sir!

  42. sparkless - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:43 PM

    "A possible solution? Suspend beer sales after the second inning to anyone wearing Phillies gear."Moronic. Seriously."…out-of-control, foul-mouthed, drunken barbarians invading their home"So overblown. This is downright embarrasing how much this is being blown out of proportion.I have enjoyed banter and back and forth with Philly fans every time I've been at the park with them. It isn't hard. Learn to deal with drunks. People from DC get drunk and act stupid as well.

  43. Joe Seamhead - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:48 PM

    I agree, sparkless. Trust me, I have a lot of experience dealing with drunks. I also find most of the fans from up north to be okay. I just want them to be a much lower percentage of the house.

  44. Another_Sam - Aug 21, 2011 at 1:50 PM

    Seamhead — I know what you mean; I too latched on to another team for the interim. The club just up the road that's now in the faux ballpark. This club came to town and I've not been north to an AL game since. I dropped that club like a hot potato. LOL. But seriously you're right about the reality — fans of a good club are motivated to follow that club when they can. A few winning seasons here and I'm on the road to Philadelphia and Pittsburg. Aside — BTW, sold out doesn't mean no tickets available; it just means expensive tickets available.

  45. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:01 PM

    So does anyone know what has happened in the stadium that we could fit almost 3,000 more people than we could before? How could yesterday have 2,500+ more people than previous sold out games?Standing room tickets. If you had taken a look around last night, you would have seen people standing 2,3 or 4 deep around the entire upper deck. The Red Loft/Scoreboard Walk area looked like a madhouse. Meanwhile, virtually every seat in the park was occupied.

  46. N. Cognito - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:04 PM

    "Didn't we have a $1 or $2 or $5 ticket special going for Saturday night's game?"No. Next stupid question.

  47. N. Cognito - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:05 PM

    "So does anyone know what has happened in the stadium that we could fit almost 3,000 more people than we could before? How could yesterday have 2,500+ more people than previous sold out games?"SRO

  48. Gonat - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:13 PM

    Big Cat said… Hey, we are only 4 games under .500, have young guys on the rise. The Phillies grow older by the day. We are already very competitive with them and they know it. Would love to see Wang let one of his sinkers get away from him and "accidentally" bury itself in Utleys ribs….or Howards for that matter August 21, 2011 9:28 AM___________________________Yep, it will turn to where the Nats are beating the Philthies on a normal basis and that may be 2012. They have the 2nd highest payroll in the Majors which a lot of people probably don't realize as they surpassed the Red Sox and are $30 mill from the Yankees. With a lucrative TV contract and sellouts every game, they can afford to do it just like the Yankees. The Phillies built the core of their team on Draft Picks and now they are building the Yankee way with Free Agency (Cliff Lee) and deadline trades (Oswalt, Pence) and blockbuster trades (Halladay). Once the Phillies core is gone and their Farm system is gone, they will have to rely on expensive Free Agency. The Nats have to extend contacts of their core and continue to build from within with smart Free Agency. The big trades should be reserved for when you are on the doorstep of the playoffs.I will give the Phillies credit, so far they are winning and have sustained it over a long period now. The next 3 years will be critical for them as they are aging and have more of their own players coming up to the end of their contracts and I hope they fall flat on their faces.

  49. natsfan1a - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:17 PM

    Funny, I was proposing a similar campaign to my husband this a.m. A group package including a "this is our house" t-shirt or some such (not sure about his proposed slogan, "Nats fans of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains." Catchy, but that's a lot to fit on a t-shirt… ;-))Richard said… The Philadelphia invasion of Nats Park is an indictment on two fronts. First, of MLB, which allows money to dominate, to buy a winning team, which Philadelphia has done — and the Nats are trying to follow suit with the Werth contract. So we have no reason to complain and most of us are not complaining on that front. Second, it's an indictment of us, the Nats fans. We should buy more of these tickets and attend. I'm as guilty as anyone. I've shamefully avoided Philadelphia games when selecting my tickets during our season ticket distribution and for the other games I attend. I/we should start a word-of-mouth campaign to buy these tickets and attend these games, call it the "Take Back the Park" campaign — or some such. Anyway, it'll have to be word-of-mouth 'cause the Nats surely won't help. Granted, it'll be a hard fight. We're two hours from big spending, hardcore Philadelphia and we're a transient area. Lots of people go to Nats Park to cheer for the other guys. So I wonder if "Nats Town" is that kind of baseball place? But witness the Caps fans … and Redskins, although re the latter, Steeler fans recently made impact at FedEx. Anyway, here's one commitment at least. August 21, 2011 8:49 AM

  50. natsfan1a - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM

    (And, yeah, it's been done…)natsfan1a said… Funny, I was proposing a similar campaign to my husband this a.m. A group package including a "this is our house" t-shirt or some such (not sure about his proposed slogan, "Nats fans of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains." Catchy, but that's a lot to fit on a t-shirt… ;-))

  51. Gonat - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:26 PM

    On the antisemtism thing, it doesn't matter your religious affiliation to be a genius that when you refer to someone of the Jewish faith as cheap or a money grubber that it will ruffle a few feathers. How pissed off were a few on here when Nyjer was called stupid, lazy, uncontrolled with his behavior which are typical stereotypes of African Americans. Next maybe someone can come up with some code words for Hispanics and Asians since Chien-Ming Wang is pitching today to a Hispanic battery-mate.The point is, you may feel that way with your comments and they may be true and for some the "code words" hurt.

  52. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:31 PM

    How about loud, drunk and obnoxious for the white people from south Philly? (speaking of code words)

  53. Navy Nats Fan - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:35 PM

    OK, Nats Lady, glad to see you will return today. Blue jersey, blue hat, right? How about we meet at the Frank Howard statue before the game? What time's good for you?

  54. Wally - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:43 PM

    So here is an interesting stat on CMW. Wang has already produced .2 WAR this year. Projecting out his remaining starts at exactly the same level (no improvement), that puts him on pace to provide .6 WAR this year.Fangraphs estimated that this past offseason based on FA contract signings, 1 WAR = $5m. So that means CMW would have produced $3m of value this year. His guaranteed pay the past two years? $3m.Who knows how it will work out. It is such a small sample that one bad start could wipe out all the positive WAR. Or whether any of you believe that performance can be reduced to such basic economics, but it is interesting data. On Aug 1, would anyone have even offered a remotely- plausible theory that the Nats would get their money back on CMW?Really an amazing story. And I do not think that they should try to resign him.

  55. Mark'd - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:44 PM

    Gonat, good point and I get your point and you can never change real hatred in some peoples hearts.

  56. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:47 PM

    @ Sparks 7:40 AMWrong. You misquoted the passage by leaving out a rather important word (the word "again") as well as including other "dopey" errors of your own making. At 3:35 AM I wrote "I will not respond to your nonsense again Drew8." AGAIN meant from that point forward.@GoNat 9:02 AMFor better or worse, sorry, I'm not CBinDC. Different parson even if we (apparently?) agree on the question of whether the Lerners have sold out the DC baseball fans for their apparent preference for Philadelphia money money money.@ AllHow does one go about legitimately criticizing the Lerners' group sales profit grab without people like Sparks or Gonat coming out of the woodwork to scold, shame and "educate" others about catch-all "code words"? Relax mate, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar!

  57. N. Cognito - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:50 PM

    "WE" will buy more tickets to Nats games when the Nats are good. That's an axiom for any ball club. Campaigns to get more people to buy tickets won't do anything.Given the history, what I would like to see the Nats do for Phillies games:1) More police outside the ballpark, citing people for public drunkeness.2) Greater escurity inside the ballpark, throwing MORE people out for unruly behavior, including obscenities.3) Find out how the Mets make it harder for groups to get tickets (is it just harder for Phillies groups?) and institute the same procedures for Phillies games.4) Though the Stan cluster**** was the only time the Nats promoted ticket sales to Phils fans, make sure it NEVER happens again.5) Do NOT send promotional e-mails or snail mails to Philly area IPs or to people with Philly area phone numbers or zip codes. I don't care whether or not they've bought tickets before.6) For whatever Phillies groups do get tickets, make sure the different groups ae spread throughout the ballpark, in the higher seats in the section and do not put them in blocks – put them in a single row.

  58. N. Cognito - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM

    "How does one go about legitimately criticizing the Lerners' group sales profit grab"Something you still haven't done.

  59. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM

    Navy, can you just come by Section 303 during the game? I will be in the front row in the handicap section. If you don't see me, ask the ushers they know me. It will be easier for me than standing. Thanks.

  60. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:56 PM

    N.Cog, re #3 — everything in NY is a hassle. Nature of the beast.

  61. Mark'd - Aug 21, 2011 at 2:57 PM

    One thing we all know it takes money to make money. The Philthies are just helping the bank roll. I was a onetime O's traveler. They have made visiting teams an art form with the Yankees and Red Sox invasion.

  62. FS - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:02 PM

    Whatever, let's just beat Halladay today and get it over with. There is no cure to this unless we start beating them in DC.

  63. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM

    Someone made the point that Fillies money is paying Werth's salary… Why do they boo him so much? Didn't he do a good job for them? Aren't they happy with Hunter Pence? Werth was a FREE agent in the Land of the Free!

  64. N. Cognito - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:04 PM

    NatsLady said… "N.Cog, re #3 — everything in NY is a hassle. Nature of the beast."So true. It might just be their group sales process.On another note, just got this from the Nats: "Thanks for your email. [Advance sale windows] is something we hope to rectify for the 2012 season. We appreciate your feedback and hope to have a solution in the near future. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns."

  65. NatsLady - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:04 PM

    Heading to the park. Go Wang, Go NATS!

  66. citizen16 - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:19 PM

    Mark is right. I was at the game last night and I would estimate about 35,000 Phillies fans. I hadn't been back to a Phillies game at Nats Park since the opening day 2010 debacle. There are too many other fun games to attend without having to deal with the deluge of Phillies fans. In the past I'd see a lot of their fans in the outfield sections, maybe in the 400 level. Last night in Section 318 there were maybe 8-10 Nats fans in the entire section. Everyone else was wearing Phillies gear. In all fairness, the fans I interacted with last night were good natured and not overly obnoxious. I went last night because the Nats-to-Phillies fans ratio looked reasonable on TV on Friday night and for the bobble head. I still believe you can't have a bad day at the ballpark, but I prefer to spend my days at a HOME game. And last night I went with the attitude that all of these Phillies fans are just bringing in money that the Nats can spend to sign some big free agents or extend our players. But it takes away a lot of the fun when every single player on the home team gets booed all night. My 8 year old was very confused.So my question for Mark or any other reporter….do then Nats actively market these games to the Phillies fans still? The Stan Kasten PR disaster in Philly radio still really bugs me. He did more to promote the Nats in Philly than he ever did in DC. I know that most of this will be solved by consistently winning, but I'd be embarrassed if I worked in the Nats front office by what happened last night. Why would you schedule Ian Desmond bobble head night and then invite a bunch of Philly fans to the game? I'll be back at least twice next week against the D-backs. But I'm still not going back to a Phillies game any time soon. The effort isn't worth the hassle for me.

  67. lesatcsc - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:20 PM

    The solution is build a team that spanks the Phillies in Nats park regualarly and with authority. The glow will go off the 136 mile drive if the Phillies get clobbered most times they play in DC. That's a long quiet drive home after a 7-0 drubbing.One of the ways you do that is you gather up all the extra money the Phillies fans so generously donated to the Nats coffers and you use it to sign great free agents who then assist in laying those aforementioned beatings on the Phils. In essence, they fund their own demise.Perhaps you can even rub it in by announcing hitters "Batting 4th for the Nationals and made possible by the kind donations of Phillies fans, the first baseman, number 44, Prince Fielder"!

  68. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:29 PM

    @ N. Cognito 10:52 AMNor have you Mr. Snark. The latest Philly invasion is being debated by Nats fans all over the net. One theme is the Lerners' money grab so rev up your brain, you still haven't answered the question. I'd even welcome an answer in your dry, rambling style.

  69. natsfan1a - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:30 PM

    Only problem with the FA signing scenario is that most of them not only want the big money, they also want to win. So which comes first?

  70. Mick - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:30 PM

    The Lerners should consult Ted Leonsis on how to keep opposing team's fans the hell out of our ball park. It can be done if the Lerners "REALLY" want to do it.

  71. natsfan1a - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:38 PM

    Was about to voice support for the final three points of a post by sec 222, but now it appears to be gone. Did I hallucinate that one? Heck, as long as I'm hallucinating, how about a complete game shutout by the Nats, with Halliday giving up 5 runs and not getting out of the second inning. (Hey, this is my hallucination; go get your own.) :-)

  72. Navy Nats Fan - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:45 PM

    OK, Nats Lady, will see you there. Do you still need a Desmond?

  73. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:56 PM

    @MickI agree with you, it's put up or shut up for the Lerners. Since they show no inclination to emulate Ted Leonsis' fan friendly approach one can easily conclude they love the money more they love Nats fans in DC. Money money money.

  74. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 3:57 PM

    ("…more THAN they…")

  75. N. Cognito - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:19 PM

    Anonymous said… "@ N. Cognito 10:52 AMNor have you Mr. Snark. The latest Philly invasion is being debated by Nats fans all over the net. One theme is the Lerners' money grab so rev up your brain, you still haven't answered the question."Other than the Kasten trip to Philly, what money grab has there been?Mick said… "The Lerners should consult Ted Leonsis on how to keep opposing team's fans the hell out of our ball park. It can be done if the Lerners "REALLY" want to do it."Different environments. The Caps have cut off season ticket sales at a level leaving only about a 1000-2000 tickets available for single game sales. They open up single game sales to STH and people on the STH wait list before tickets go on sale to the public. By the time this sale is over, there's usually very few tickets left for the opposing fans that used to come to Verizon Center in any significant numbers (Pens, Flyers, Red Wings, Sabres and Rangers). The Nats have way too many available seats for that to work here.

  76. N. Cognito - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:27 PM

    "So my question for Mark or any other reporter….do then Nats actively market these games to the Phillies fans still? The Stan Kasten PR disaster in Philly radio still really bugs me."No, they don't, but once you've bought tickets, your e-mail address is in their system and you get e-mails from the Nats. The Kasten move didn't bug me – it pissed me the F off, and I think it have been an "opening of the floodgates" for even more Phillies fans coming to DC. For that, he will NEVER be forgiven."Why would you schedule Ian Desmond bobble head night and then invite a bunch of Philly fans to the game?"Why not? Generally, I would think a bobblehead night would entice more Nats fans to the game, but then an Ian Desmond bobblehead night have an opposite affect for many Nats fans – I know I didn't care about the bobblehead.

  77. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 4:59 PM

    @ N. Cognito 12:19 PM wrote: "Other than the Kasten trip to Philly, what money grab has there been?" Refresh your memory – start with Mark Z's analysis from April 2010. Ticket buying difficulties experienced by Nats fans (preserved in the comments section) are worth reading too.http://www.natsinsider.com/2010/04/how-philly-fans-overtook-dc.htmlKasten's pandering on Philly radio in 2009 and the block sales nine months later for O.D. 2010 are the stuff of infamy. Therefore the Lerners have had ample time to tamp down these unpleasant Philly invasions were they so inclined – and it appears they are not. Money money money?

  78. Anonymous - Aug 21, 2011 at 5:08 PM

    @ N. CognitoWe're going to have to 'agree to disagree' as the cliche goes. You appear to be an apologist and part time know it all, and no longer worthy of my time. Hopefully for the sake of Nats fans everywhere CMW will capture lightning in a bottle and send Halladay and the interlopers back to South Philly in defeat. Time to tend to that instead.

  79. Joe Seamhead - Aug 21, 2011 at 11:25 PM

    For all of you "fans" that won't go to a Phillies/Nats game, all I can say is that's too damn bad. I went Friday night and today. Regarding both of them, I had two of the most rewarding games of the many, many games that I've gone to. Silence was Golden, especially today. Ian's homer in the 9th to tie it shut up a very vocal Phillies crown. Jonny Gomes getting HBP was just as effective as a communal shot of Thorozine to the lot of them. I'm pretty sure that their ride back up 95 really sucked. Ha!

  80. Catcher50 - Aug 22, 2011 at 12:17 AM

    What I'd really like to know is how many of the Philly Phans live in NoVA or MD and they or their parents managed to escape the city of brotherly hate. On top of that many of them only became fans as the Phils got good and before there was a team here?

Archives

NL EAST STANDINGS

W L GB
WASHINGTON 55 44 --
ATLANTA 55 47 1.5
MIAMI 48 52 8.0
NEW YORK 48 54 8.5
PHILADELPHIA 44 58 12.5
Through Thursday's games

UPCOMING SCHEDULE
FRI: Nats at Reds, 7:10 p.m.
SAT: Nats at Reds, 4:05 p.m.
SUN: Nats at Reds, 1:10 p.m.
MON: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
TUE: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
WED: Nats at Marlins, 12:40 p.m.
THU: Phillies at Nats, 7:05 p.m.
Full season schedule

Mark joins Rob Carlin and Joe Orsulak every Thursday at 4 p.m. on Comcast SportsNet for a half-hour show on the Nats, Orioles and rest of MLB. Re-airs Thursdays at 11:30 p.m., Saturdays at 9 a.m. and Sundays at 11:30 a.m.

ON THE RADIO

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MON: 12:45 p.m.
TUE: 2:30 p.m.
WED: 4:30 p.m.
THU: 2:30 p.m.
FRI: 1:30 p.m., 5:30 p.m.
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