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No offense for Zimmermann again

Jun 23, 2012, 1:47 PM EDT

Associated Press photo
Danny Espinosa and his lineup mates totaled one run on five hits last night.

Perhaps you’ve read this story before: Jordan Zimmermann pitches well for seven innings but makes one costly mistake, all the while his teammates are completely shut down by the opposing starter.

It’s become a broken record, and it remained on continuous loop last night in Baltimore when the Nationals lost 2-1 in the opener of this weekend’s Battle of the Beltways series.

Zimmermann’s one mistake: He left a second-inning fastball up to Mark Reynolds, who belted it for a solo homer. His teammates’ entire offensive output against Jason Hammel: one unearned run on five hits.

Rich Dubroff has the full story and reaction on CSNwashington.com.

123 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:03 PM

    No matter how much credit the Nats players want to give Hammel after the game, the fact is swinging at the 1st pitch and grounding out kept Hammel in the game instead of getting into the bullpen.JZim has had 10 games this year of 3 runs or less in support of which 7 of those games cost him a "L"By the way, I like his use of the changeup. He had the one pitch to Reynolds that cost him.

  2. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:05 PM

    JZ pitched well, overall. But he lost focus (or something) after he made that great play at first base. Then he gave up the gopher ball. He needed to slow down the game and remember to pitch. He's done that before, giving up runs after something unusual happens (good or bad).He let the game slip away after the Nick Johnson HPB. That was my knock on him last year, and he's definitely on the way to overcoming it, but he's not there yet.Here are the results of our starting rotation (team result):Stras 14 starts 12-2Gio 14 starts 11-3JZ 14 starts 7-7EJax 13 starts 4-9Det/Wang 13 starts 6-7Total 40-28 That is more drop-off than you want for your No. 3 starter. If you can get to the bullpen with a lead or a tie, chances are the team will win. He is not doing that, not as much as he needs to. You can blame the hitters all you want, but, as I said in the game thread, the hitters are up against it with every opposing pitcher at the top of his game vs. the Nats. If JZ is waiting around for this offense, he will have a l-o-n-g wait. Get out there and pitch a shut out or two, you have it in you!!! I know you do!

  3. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:08 PM

    Ghost Of Steve M. said… At some point you have to move Zim to back of the order if he doesn't start getting the job done. June 13, 2012 10:38 AM I said this 10 days ago. Nobody agreed with me then. Not surprised nobody agreed then and wouldn't expect Davey to do it, but clearly for anyone really watching the quality of his at-bats is worse than what you get from most bench players.I also agree you don't bench Zim but this slump of his has now spilled over to Bryce Harper who has seen his Batting Average drop over 20 points!

  4. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:15 PM

    NatsLady, you can't blame Jordan Zimmermann for losses like this even if he gives up a gopher ball when you have a 2.89 ERA and give up 2 runs over 7.This is squarely on the Nats offense. Score JZim some runs and he looks like the Ace that he is.Yes, that darn HBP cost him but credit to the other team as they are 13th in the Majors in runs scored and JZim held them to 2 runs.By contrast, the Nats are 4 worst in the Majors in runs scored and 1 away from being the 3rd worst and last night's only run was unearned!

  5. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:18 PM

    I have a good feeling about today's game, I put my Clip jersey on because we need to need a closer :). Ejax is pitching without the bullpen being tired, he won't have to "eat" innings, he won't have nerves being on National TV, nor should the rest of the guys. Espy will get to hit right-handed and it won't rain. Go NATS!!!!

  6. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM

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  7. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:22 PM

    Score JZim some runs and he looks like the Ace that he is.OK. But the true Ace does whatever it takes to win. He bears down despite adversity.

  8. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:25 PM

    I just read the CSN story. It looks like F.P. won't need to make a Kool-Aid run for Billy R. this time, as it's to be Carpenter and Tom Verducci on the Fox broadcast. :-)

  9. rabbit34 - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:27 PM

    No offense for Zimmerman either.

  10. MicheleS - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:28 PM

    Ghost.. I think the fact that Davey mentioned moving RZ down in the line up tells you it's been discussed. As much as it pains me to say it, it is probably time to make that move Maybe down to 6? Just to give him a breather and get him away from Harper. What about moving Ian to 3?

  11. MicheleS - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:29 PM

    NatsLady, have to disagree with you on that one. I think JZ does bear down. The only thing he could do to improve his chances of actually winning a game is to pitch a no/no.

  12. MicheleS - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:30 PM

    Hi Rabbit!!!!

  13. CBinDC - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:34 PM

    But it's not Risk Eksteins fault not at all….. keep repeating that …..It's not Rick Eksteins fault

  14. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM

    NatsLady said… OK. But the true Ace does whatever it takes to win. He bears down despite adversity. June 23, 2012 10:22 AM Tell Felix Hernandez that when he won the Cy Young. Giving up 2 runs over 7 against a team batting a DH is doing what it takes to win and by the way, if JZim gives up 1, who knows what happens with a tie game.JZim vs. the Angels last year gave up no earned runs in a complete game and lost 1-0 as the Nats booted a ball.The HR ball was an up and in pitch. Give the batter some credit. The HBP to lead-off the inning is what cost him, but again, the Nats were hitting, do they win a 1-1 tie?

  15. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM

    Bottom line is J Zim did his job period! Only the most delusional defenders of Ryan Zimmerman are criticizing J Zim for giving up 2 runs in 7 innings. R zim needs to be out of the line up, Lombo can play 3rd and I'm willing to live with mistakes at 3rd because I know Lombo will produce at the plate. R Zim gets his deal, finally has other stars around him and now he is letting this team down in a big way. I actually root for him to strike out if we have a man on 1st base, because it is almost 100% he will hit into a DP, if he hits at all

  16. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:37 PM

    MicheleS said… Ghost.. I think the fact that Davey mentioned moving RZ down in the line up tells you it's been discussed. As much as it pains me to say it, it is probably time to make that move Maybe down to 6? Just to give him a breather and get him away from Harper. What about moving Ian to 3? June 23, 2012 10:28 AM I go:LomboDesiHarperMorseLaRocheZimEspiFlores

  17. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:37 PM

    and to think, there were those who wanted Ian Desmond gone last year. If it were not for Ian's bat this year, there are at least 5 games we lose

  18. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:42 PM

    Yankees game last Saturday showed what a player Desmond is, he makes 2 bad errors and next time up he homers. Ian makes up for his mistakes.

  19. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:43 PM

    I don't usually indulge in such things as this, Mick, but you kinda set that one up on a tee for me. :-)Mick said…Ian Desmond irritates me, man I hope Rendon can play next season and then move Espinosa back to SS. That bunt was so effortless and Desmond has a demeanor about him that he could care less. He is part of the culture of losing here. After WerthLESS AB in this inning I bet every Philly fan is laughing their ass off at Nats. Werth simply SUCKS! August 21, 2011 3:11 PM

  20. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:43 PM

    Everyone have a great day. After a late night last night, the Orioles have a "must attend" season ticket event today and have to be at the park early although Wei Yin Chen doesn't have to attend.Key to tonight is EJax having a quick and no run 1st inning.

  21. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:43 PM

    yet, there seems to be a life time of mulligans for R Zim among my friends in here… why????

  22. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:44 PM

    natsfan… that was different Mick, he sounds like a moron, lol

  23. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:45 PM

    and that was 2011

  24. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:47 PM

    Mick on June 23, 2012 10:37 AM meet "Mick" on August 21, 2011 3:11 PM NatsJack and I have always supported Ian Desmond because we know how hard he plays the game and never has excuses for himself.Last night was no exception as he only made excuses for his teammates last night saying "Hammels is one of the toughest pitchers we have seen this year". Desi went 2-3 with a walk and hustled the Nats only run home.

  25. Doc - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:51 PM

    If JFlo's liner is an inch above J.J. Hardy's glove, we'd be having a different conversation here. That's why even good offenses lose 50 games or more every season.One of the game's worst offenses actually stung the ball pretty well last night. If the Nats do the same to-night, they'll win big time!

  26. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 2:51 PM

    mick said… yet, there seems to be a life time of mulligans for R Zim among my friends in here… why???? June 23, 2012 10:43 AM Because we all have long memories. The guy has had 3 great years for the Nats. While I agree with "what have you done for me lately", this is about the team. He is hurting the team. He has to be moved down in the order until he proves he has earned his spot back.He is in a prolonged slump and many thought weeks ago it was temporary. Clearly it is a long slump.How do you help Zim help himself? You move him down the order to take the stress off.

  27. Doc - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:02 PM

    natsfan1a you must have one heck of a NI digital 'library'. Impressive!!!Like Mick, we'll need to change our monikers periodically.Maybe RZim would like to change his name too!!

  28. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:02 PM

    or move him out of the order for a few games and let him rest and re focus… what would be wrong with that?

  29. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:03 PM

    mick said… Gonat… how far down the lineup do you move Zim and what if that does not help? Is he hurt and if so, why don't the Nats come clean? June 23, 2012 10:16 AM _____________________________If Espi was hitting better I would say 7th. I agree with Steve. 6th. As we have seen, this has now spilled over to Bryce Harper. That's what really stinks.

  30. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:05 PM

    Doc said… natsfan1a you must have one heck of a NI digital 'library'. Impressive!!!Like Mick, we'll need to change our monikers periodically.Maybe RZim would like to change his name too!! June 23, 2012 11:02 AM ______________________________True. How do you find old posts like that? Is there a search function?

  31. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM

    because Zim's problems are affecting Bryce, this is why, the Nats either need to put him on DL or let him sit a few. How much longer can Davey afford to let R Zim work this out? This is not about Zim it is about the Nats at the end of the day.

  32. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM

    Ghost Of Steve M. said… Ghost Of Steve M. said… At some point you have to move Zim to back of the order if he doesn't start getting the job done. June 13, 2012 10:38 AM I said this 10 days ago. Nobody agreed with me then. Not surprised nobody agreed then and wouldn't expect Davey to do it, but clearly for anyone really watching the quality of his at-bats is worse than what you get from most bench players.I also agree you don't bench Zim but this slump of his has now spilled over to Bryce Harper who has seen his Batting Average drop over 20 points! June 23, 2012 10:08 AM _______________________________You get very little credit for seeing issues early on mostly because people don't want to see the facts/truth. A lot has changed when you fast forward 10 days. The good news is the Nats have done well overall even with Zim and Espi struggling. The bad news was how bad the Nats looked in those Yankees games.

  33. terpman33 - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:11 PM

    I have to agree with Ghost of Steve M….it's crazy to blame this loss on J-Zim..sorry NatsLady. I usually agree with most of your points, but not on this…when your starter only gives up 2 runs over 7, your supposed to win, plain and simple. I think by the start of the Colorado series, you will see Ryan Z. batting sixth. I think he's suffering from Christian Guzman 2005 disease…the prognosis is not good, since it seems to last the whole season. Im not going to say anything about the contract…it's meaningless at this point. I believe Ejax will def. get us the win tonight. Everyone stay positive, and GYFNG!!!!!

  34. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:12 PM

    but… Espi comes up HUGE huge against Tampa 2 nights ago. When was the last time Zim delivered at the plate?

  35. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:12 PM

    Who is blaming J Zim??? that is nuts!

  36. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:13 PM

    mick said… because Zim's problems are affecting Bryce, this is why, the Nats either need to put him on DL or let him sit a few. How much longer can Davey afford to let R Zim work this out? This is not about Zim it is about the Nats at the end of the day. June 23, 2012 11:09 AM _____________________________Davey does it his way and won't change because you and I and thousands of others think he should. All you have to do is look at Espi as he wouldn't bench him. Also, difference is Espi isn't hitting in the 3 hole and Espi also has been hitting great right-handed.

  37. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:13 PM

    only the most delusional supporter on Ryan Zim would blame J Zim

  38. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:14 PM

    Gonat…. I agree

  39. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:16 PM

    Tell Felix Hernandez that when he won the Cy Young.He can have it. I don't see the M's with any rings.JZ's job is not to accumulate stats. It is not to give up 2 runs in 7 innings. His job is to get the game to the bullpen tied or with a lead. He needs to do everything short of pine-tar to do that.

  40. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:23 PM

    I'm not blaming the loss on JZ. There's plenty of blame to go around. But he didn't do his job as well as he should (in my view) and he's has had similar misses in the past. He needs to hold serve. Then it's up to the offense. When Stras is shut down, JZ will have to have a better (team) record than .500, unless by some miracle we are leading the division by 8 games at the start of September.

  41. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:23 PM

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  42. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:31 PM

    NatsLady said… But he didn't do his job as well as he should (in my view) and he's has had similar misses in the past. He needs to hold serve. June 23, 2012 11:23 AM _______________________________Yesterday, Haren gives up 5 runs and wins. Fister gives up 4 runs and loses. Lester gives up 3 runs and loses. Blackburn gives up 4 runs and wins. Freidrich gives up 4 runs and loses. Romero gives up 4 runs and wins. Lincecum gives up 3 runs and gets a no decision. Richard gives up 5 runs (3 earned) and wins. Sale gives up 0 runs and gets a no decision. Jordan Zimmermann gives up 2 runs and gets the loss.There is a pattern here as you can see and this has been a pattern over his career. In fact, yesterday all pitchers won giving up 2 runs with a DH and that is typically the case in AL baseball for starters going 7 innings or more.

  43. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:37 PM

    I'm sorry, Gonat, but I couldn't make any sense of your post. If you are saying our DH didn't do his job, well, he got a double and was stranded but, yes, I'm not arguing that the 2-3-4-5 hitters are doing their jobs. They're not. If they were, JZ could afford to give up two runs.I'm saying when JZ is an Ace he will overcome the offense not doing their jobs. Until then he is just a guy with good stats.

  44. NCNatsie - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:38 PM

    To those who have said RZim's problems have spilled over to Harper I have a question: how do you know that? Harper's average has dipped, to be sure, but how do you know it's RZim's fault?

  45. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:39 PM

    And, yes, I'm being tough on JZ. If you want to go to the playoffs, especially with a handicap (Stras shut down), then JZ and everyone else needs to up their game.

  46. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:40 PM

    Mick, I looked at 2011 because that's what your post mentioned. Maybe you have a doppelganger. :-)mick said… natsfan… that was different Mick, he sounds like a moron, lol June 23, 2012 10:44 AM mick said… and that was 2011 June 23, 2012 10:45 AM

  47. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:41 PM

    Gio Gonzalez gives up 2 runs over 6 innings on Thursday. He is pulled in a 2-2 game and then the Nats score 2 runs in the bottom of the winning which per MLB rules allowed him to be in line for a win which he got.Wins and losses are a matter of circumstance so often. To judge JZim by "L's" given the performances he has given this team isn't fair to him. Also, he has contributed to his own offense with hits in over 1/2 the games he has batted in including a HR, double and 2 RBIs.This team has done a dis-service to JZim.

  48. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:41 PM

    NCN–I'm with you. Why would Harper's (or ALR's) stats going down be blamed on RZ? That doesn't make sense at all. RZ is a black hole in the order right now, he hasn't infected Desi, why should he "infect" Harper.

  49. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:42 PM

    Gonat, if you read my posts carefully, I am not talking about JZ's wins and losses. I am talking about the team's wins and losses when JZ starts. Big, big difference there.

  50. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:43 PM

    Doc and Gonat. No, wish there was a search function but I just use an Old School search engine. I did online research in a former life so I have a knack for ferreting things out. :-)Doc said… natsfan1a you must have one heck of a NI digital 'library'. Impressive!!! Like Mick, we'll need to change our monikers periodically. Maybe RZim would like to change his name too!! June 23, 2012 11:02 AM True. How do you find old posts like that? Is there a search function? June 23, 2012 11:05 AM

  51. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:43 PM

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  52. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:44 PM

    damn typos..her I go againspeaking of when Strass is shut down… we need to hope by then that our bats are hitting and that Zim is hitting. even after that, if Det is not consistent, the Nats could find themselves with problems of needing 2 pitchers, a 5th starter and if not a 2 starter, they would need to find someone on caliber with J Zim and Gio.So, should Rizzo be focused on getting such a pitcher in a trade?This is actually the number one topic with the Nats and even more so because our 5th spot is questionable, unless Det becomes that guy consistently. If Wang is not a bust, then Wang and Det become the 4th and 5th pitchers in September. is this what the original plan was? If not, then it means Rizzo has to be thinking of a Dempster like Gonat said or something elseJune 23, 2012 11:43 AM

  53. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 3:49 PM

    Come on NatsLady, Desi is hitting 6th. Harper hits in the spot before Zim. The pitchers know Zim is struggling and Harper has no coverage behind him. Its similar with batters hitting 8th with a pitcher behind them. The quality of the pitches are more to the edges. Harper has to work the count better and take more walks. Harper has been expanding the strike zone and getting into bad habits.

  54. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:00 PM

    RZ has been in a slump a long time. Other than the last few days, Harper has had a fine June. The only noticeable effect that RZ's slump has had on the batters ahead of him (Lombo, Harper, Espy) is they are more aggressive on the basepaths to avoid a RZ GIDP.I would have to check the heat maps to see if Harper is "expanding" the strike zone, and I'm at work now, so don't have time. I'll delegate that task.

  55. NatsJack in Florida - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:02 PM

    mick….the Nats have someone on the same level as JZimm and Gio. His name is Edwin Jackson.

  56. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:11 PM

    Nats jack… i included Edwin, I am saying if we are down Strass and the 5th starter is not secured, then all we have for Spet is Gio, J Zim and Edwin.

  57. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:12 PM

    my point was that when Strass is shut down, we need a replacement and if the 5th spot is unsettled, we then need two pitchers. we are set with Gio Zim and Ejax, i know that

  58. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:13 PM

    While Zim can't be blamed for Harper expanding the strike zone. In his 1st at-bat yesterday, Harper didn't get 1 ball near the K Zone and he grounded out on a pitch outside the zone. On his 1st swing flyout, the ball was on the outer edge of the zone.http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=434628&game=gid_2012_06_22_wasmlb_balmlb_1&batterX=2&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gifhttp://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=434628&game=gid_2012_06_22_wasmlb_balmlb_1&batterX=58&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gif

  59. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:14 PM

    speaking of which… could Marquis come back in the equation for the stretch run with perhaps a Dempster, although I am now hearing that the O's may get Dempster first

  60. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:17 PM

    the Nats have someone on the same level as JZimm and Gio. His name is Edwin Jackson.So (assuming no injuries) you go into late-August September withGioJZEJaxDet/Wang?Still need one more by my count unless you are letting Gorzy start or bringing back Lannan. I say Rizzo trades for a pitcher at the deadline both to cover for an injury and to have someone for September. He wouldn't have done it except the Nats are for real contenders this year.

  61. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:21 PM

    NatsJack, if EJax can start the game with a 1-2-3 1st inning, he could be the Nats best pitcher.A .981 OPS in the 1st inning won't cut it. Contrast that with the best 5th inning with a .283 OPS.

  62. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:24 PM

    Agree on Ejax. His potential is VERY HIGH. I wonder if he is cutting short his warmup with the expectation he will have to pitch a lot of innings in a game, and that is affecting his first inning. Remember when Wang had that problem and he had to increase his warmup?

  63. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:28 PM

    Marquis has always been a poor September starter so I don't see him as the guy you need.End of September it will be:1. Gio2. JZim3. EJax4. 5.There may be 2 spots to fill with the inconsistencies with the current #5. Think how good the Nats could be if they get in July a top pitcher who pitches in the current rotation for August to early to mid-September when Stras gets sent down:1. Stras2. Gio3. JZim4. EJax5. New Acquisition

  64. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:33 PM

    gonat…good point

  65. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:35 PM

    NatsLady said… Agree on Ejax. His potential is VERY HIGH. I wonder if he is cutting short his warmup with the expectation he will have to pitch a lot of innings in a game, and that is affecting his first inning. Remember when Wang had that problem and he had to increase his warmup? June 23, 2012 12:24 PM ____________________________I'm thinking the same thing. He is averaging 6 2/3 innings per start. If he does throw more pitches in his warm-up, it will most likely affect how deep he goes.As always in the NL, sometimes pitchers are pulled early in favor of a pinch-hitter when we know the starter can go longer.I agree with SteveM, if EJax could reverse his 1st inning bad starts, he would be an Ace and with a 3.02 ERA he is close to being in the Top 15 which is #1 stats. Clearly would be a #1 or #2 on most teams as Gio and JZim are also.

  66. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:37 PM

    I was counting on Wang to be that consistent 5th guy, I bet Davey was too. With Strass shut down, then it would hhave been easy to find one arm via Det/Lannan or one big free agent. Now it gets dicey

  67. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 4:38 PM

    Gorzo I never want to see start again, sorry. Frankly, i hope 2012 is his last here

  68. Section 222 - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:00 PM

    NL, I think you may have gone off the deep end here. You say that JZ's job is to "hold serve", and until he can do that, he can't be considered an ace. You can't possibly believe that it is incumbent on JZ to pitch better than Stras or Gio because the team has a disturbing tendency to score 1 run instead of 2 or 3 behind him. That's crazy talk. You're not only being tough on JZ, you're being unreasonable.Now, I happen to agree that he didn't pitch his best last night. The gopher ball to Reynolds was not his only mistake. He left several pitches up in the zone and was lucky he didn't get hit harder. But remember also that the conditions were pretty awful out there. It was a gutsy performance and he deserved better from our embarrassingly weak offense.I've been wondering about why it is that JZimm seems to suffer so often from lack of support. (Jackson does too, of course.) Is it because the team doesn't like him? Because they have something against him? Of course not. So I wonder if it's as simple as his position in the rotation. The Nats are 23-5 in the games started by Stras and Gio. That's an incredible record. It means that they have quite often won at least two straight when he pitches. Maybe there's a natural tendency to let down after 2 wins. Maybe it's the law of averages. (Is there any way to calculate how often teams that win 2 straight, go on to win 3 straight?). Who knows? But the sure thing is that it's not JZnn's fault. He's having a great year, even contributing with the bat. The team has to step up and do its part with the bat or he's going to continue to be the hard luck guy in the rotation.

  69. Section 222 - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:07 PM

    P.S. Hi Davey. Drop Zim down in the order if only to take the pressure off. It's time. He's killing us right now. Bobby V. is benching Kevin Youkilis (.225/.311/.359, OPS+81 in 41 games), and he's having a better year than Zim (.222/.290/.310, OPS+65 in 54 games).

  70. NatsJack in Florida - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:10 PM

    Uh oh, mick…..I feelt the rath of peric coming on your Gorzo comment. Prepare to duck.

  71. Faraz Shaikh - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:10 PM

    I agree that JZ does not get as much support as others but yesterday he did not pitch good either. 7 inning two runs is not an indicator of how much solid contact was made off of him. on the other hand, Hammel did pitch good but it was not entirely our lineup's fault. Like someone put it over at federal baseball, we had angered BABIP 'gods' last night for some reason.

  72. djinFl. - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:12 PM

    The price for any pitcher is going to be thru the ceiling at the trade deadline. Look how quick Livo keeps getting a new team. Heck even Jason Bergman went from the Atlantic League to the Rockies! We will need to fill our pitching holes from within. That of course means some folks are going to have to get their offense going. Runs are going to be needed more than even now.

  73. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:19 PM

    It could also be that JZ is hitting the Ace of other teams more often.

  74. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:21 PM

    Faraz, are you sure you were watching the Nats game? JZim has become a pitch to contact power pitcher. It was a good outing. The HR pitch was up and in.

  75. phil dunton - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:22 PM

    Why is the hitting coach still in place? The Cubs and Angels fired theirs and both teams hit better than the Nats. This problem with offense is now three seasons old and Ecstein is stiil here. Last excuse I heard was that the hitters were tuning him out. Well, why not, he never played professional baseball. I wouldn't listen to him either because he has no credentials to be a hitting instructor.

  76. Gonat - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:25 PM

    Ghost Of Steve M. said… Faraz, are you sure you were watching the Nats game? JZim has become a pitch to contact power pitcher. It was a good outing. The HR pitch was up and in. June 23, 2012 1:21 PM _________________________Was wondering the same thing. What game was he watching? 8 hits 1 walk and 4 of the hits were grounders.

  77. Fear and Ignorance - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM

    Reading NatsLady's comments today on Jordan Zimmermann just confirmed my belief that we have many fans that just don't understand the game. Zimmermann has been a top 15-20 pitcher in the league this year and he hasn't even been at his best. He needs to "step up his game"??? What planet are you on??? Unbelievable.

  78. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:28 PM

    he hasn't even been at his best.You said it yourself. He needs to be at his best. Why is it wrong for me to expect that? Or at least hope for it on a contending team?

  79. timeless46 - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:30 PM

    Surprised that there has not been a post about today's anniversary…… (or have i missed it)

  80. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:32 PM

    Gosh, and you all think *I* have favorites???? Say something critical about everyone's darling, Jordan Zimmermann, and suddenly I don't know anything about baseball… sheesh.

  81. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:37 PM

    Blue Jays just pulled off a squeeze in Miami. I think every one of our starters would have gotten the guy out, even Gio (who is not the best fielder).

  82. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:40 PM

    timeless46–the whole time when THAT MAN was manager was a nightmare for me. So, here ya go.Commemorate the 1-year anniversary of Jim Riggleman quitting the Nats w/the classic pic of Jim at Caddies in Bethesda. http://bit.ly/MrpvS8

  83. Faraz Shaikh - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:40 PM

    I dont think any of those ball were hit weakly, the ones he got double plays on and the ones he gave up groundball hits on. So yes, even if he is trying to pitch to contact, he wasn't exactly inducing that kind of contact (except two or three pop outs). Also when you are pitching for contact, shouldn't your pitch count be lower than his was last night? I am not trying to put all the blame on JZ but I don't think he was as good as others think.

  84. Faraz Shaikh - Jun 23, 2012 at 5:48 PM

    NatsLady, I am with you that JZ was not at his best last night.

  85. Faraz Shaikh - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:04 PM

    Would be nice to see BlueJays got no-hit but win?

  86. Section 222 - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:10 PM

    Not to beat a dead horse here, but here are 3 recent starts by Nats pitchers.1. 7 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 1 HR, 111 P, 70/412. 6 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 2 BB, 0 HR, 98 P, 58/403. 7 IP, 8 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 BB, 1 HR, 101 P, 66/35Pretty hard to distinguish. Actually, as you might have guessed, those are the three most recent starts. 1. Stras, 2. Gio, 3. JZnn. I left out the Ks to make it harder to identify them. Stras had 10, Gio 4 and JZnn only 2. The difference, of course, is that the Nats scored 3 runs in the first game, 5 in the second, and only 1 last night. Also, from what I can tell, it's our No. 5 who's hitting the other teams' aces most often. Since April 27, Det or Wang have faced, among others, Kershaw, Ian Kennedy, Tim Hudson, Josh Johnson, Dickey, and Price. We've done well to be 2-4 in those games.

  87. mick - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:20 PM

    after all this… can we just hit the GD ball tonight, lol!!!!

  88. timeless46 - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:21 PM

    Section 222 — With the team's difficulties hitting, I think it is much to our advantage for our 5th to go against the other team's 1 (as opposed to 1 against 1). All things considered, I agree the 2-4 is not that bad in those games.

  89. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:24 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  90. DWS - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM

    Thank you Section 222. Perspective is a good thing.I think Jayson will do a world of good when he returns.

  91. md_schmidt - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:34 PM

    Interesting commentary in here today. Baseball 101: score more runs than opponent. Nats' pitching staff is currently #1 in team BAA, WHIP and ERA. Nats' offense is currently #26 in runs scored, or 3.8 runs per game. All of last year's playoff teams were in the 4.5 neighborhood. Ergo, blaming one of the best performing members of the Nats pitching staff ( you remember them, the ones who many are picking 2 members for the ASG) would seem pretty ridiculous to me. Especially in a game where a starter turns in a quality start and watches his offense scratch out a paltry 5 hits and ZERO earned runs. Apparently we have arrived at a point where we feel our pitching staff must overcome one of the league's lowest scoring offenses or be told they aren't holding up their end of the bargain. Sorry, but that dog don't hunt with me. I don't have any favorites on position players or pitchers but it's obvious to me that in most cases the pitching staff is far exceeding the norm while the offense grinds away at a AAA level. If the offense doesn't get untracked, the Nats chances of making the playoffs or going past the first round are going to be hurt. A team with a more balanced performance will overtake them. Enjoying first place and hoping that I am wrong.

  92. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:37 PM

    You just never know what is going on in people's lives. I know that Adam Dunn had a "family problem" last year (don't know what it was).Can you imagine pitching three days after your brother commits suicide? I can't.Max Scherzerhttp://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-06-23/max-scherzer-brother-dead-alex-death-detroit-tigers-pittsburgh-pirates

  93. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:38 PM

    We have all kinds of fans: Those who know a lot about the game, those who don't know a lot about the game, those who think they know it all, those who think nobody else knows anything, etc.And to complicate it further, the categories aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe we could have something like a Myers-Briggs test for fans in here, with little tags next to the icons, so we could see who to read. Could be handy.

  94. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:39 PM

    Thanks, NatsLady. I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what the one-year anniversary was. Nope, I don't miss the man either.On another note, I'm thinking we have all kinds of fans. Those who know a lot about the game, those who don't know a lot about the game, those who think they know it all, those who think nobody else knows anything, etc. NatsLady knows plenty in my book. Not that it should matter to anyone else either way. I don't happen to agree with her re. Z-nn, but I'm not going to call her intelligence level or knowledge of the game into question. Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all thought the same way? (That's rhetorical but imo the answer is yes. :-))

  95. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:40 PM

    Oh, my. That's awful.

  96. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:41 PM

    That was in reply to NatsLady's post on Scherzer, of course.

  97. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:42 PM

    Kilgore just posted this:Adam Kilgore ‏@AdamKilgoreWPSobering: Ryan Zimmerman ranks 157th of 163 qualifying players with a 65 OPS+, between Robert Andino and Brendan Ryan. http://wapo.st/Mhs9LR

  98. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:42 PM

    And yes, 1a, I for one don't trust people who agree with me a lot.

  99. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:45 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  100. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:46 PM

    Thanks, FW. They have the same outside Wrigley. Good to know the system.______________________________________________Feel Wood said…In Baltimore they have a legal and sanctioned scalping area near one of the stadium gates. Buy from there. Any other scalpers you encounter will be quite shady. Buying from one of them might result in an arrest – of the scalper for sure, and maybe of the buyer too. Why chance it?

  101. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:46 PM

    Thanks for clarifying. :-) I feel for the guy, and his family.Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa said…That was in reply to NatsLady's post on Scherzer, of course. June 23, 2012 2:41 PM

  102. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:46 PM

    I agree completely, as I so often do. No, wait…Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa said… And yes, 1a, I for one don't trust people who agree with me a lot. June 23, 2012 2:42 PM

  103. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 6:50 PM

    I'm always afraid that someone will quote me while I'm typing a corrected post and haven't yet deleted the old one. Well, it just happened, and I survived. :-) Maybe I'm doing it backwards? Anyway, an editing feature would be awesome.Not sure about the Myers-Briggs thing. I took it once, but I can't recall what type I ended up being. Some combination of intuitive, introverted, feeling – eh, I forget. Tags could be cool, unless we start tagging each other. Then, maybe not. I'm so confused. :-)

  104. rogieshan - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:03 PM

    Nobody is pinning the loss on JZimermann, but NatsLady has a point. The mark of an ace is to hold the opposition after your team has just scored. JZ seems to be prone to giving up the crucial hit at the most inopportune time, often when he appears to be cruising along and in control. One could argue he is simply a victim of poor run support and that he deserves better. But sometimes how a pitcher battles can have an effect on the way his team rallies behind him. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest the players are more geared up to support Strasburg when he's pitching. His teammates feed off of him. I've said it in the past, but JZ reminds me so much of Javier Vazquez — a .500 pitcher with Cy Young stuff and prone to mental errors.

  105. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:04 PM

    I didn't take Myers-Briggs, but I did take some other test that divided people into four categories:(1) The type who find rules confining and must resist them, often to break new ground (rebellious–delighting in chaos);(2) The type who forge their way forward without or without rules (dominating–goal oriented);(3) The type who need rules to perform at their best and are lost without structure;(4) The type who make the rules (reducing chaos, process-oriented). The test was intended to help you be productive with a boss or subordinate who was of a different type.

  106. Tcostant - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:04 PM

    How many more times do we need to see the Nats tie the game and then give the lead back the following inning…

  107. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:04 PM

    1a, I would guess you were an owl in M-B.

  108. NatsFan05 - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:10 PM

    Section 222.Totally agree with you, a voice of reason. It’s not the pitching on this team that’s an issue. It the offense could score 4+ runs a game, we would be looking at four of our starting pitchers going for their 10th win of the season. If this offense can ever get going, nothing can stop the Nats from winning the NL east.

  109. MicheleS - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:11 PM

    I am so glad i am at a beer fest today!

  110. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:12 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  111. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:16 PM

    MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm… beeeeeer…

  112. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:24 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  113. NatsLady - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:29 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  114. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:31 PM

    Sect 222 for the compilation. You didn't mention that in the previous 2 starts the #9 batter was the pitcher.Even given that, some of the comments like Faraz is mind boggling.

  115. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:34 PM

    Sect 222, thanks for the compilation .

  116. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM

    sec3, yeah, I think it was either that or a Meerkat. Interesting about the other test, NatsLady. At my husband's workplace, they did one that used colors. Such tests tend to make him want to run screaming from the room. Partly because sometimes one needs a shoehorn to fit a person into a particular type. "Well, okay, part doesn't quite fit, but it's close." Partly because the results can skew expectations or be employed to predict or excuse behavior. "Well, what do you expect? I'm a Yellow. Yellows hate personality tests." or "That's about what I'd expect from a Purple. Humph!" Wonder whether baseball teams ever use such tests? But I digress. And there's a new post. Oh, just one more thing. In honor of the one-year anniversary mentioned above.Riggleman record with Nats, 140-172, .449Davey record with Nats, 80-71, .530Happy anniversary! :-)

  117. MicheleS - Jun 23, 2012 at 8:13 PM

    6/27 is the day davey took over. It's also my Dads birthday. Coincidence? I think not.

  118. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 8:19 PM

    I tend to get in trouble with HR and sociology folks when I suggest horoscopes would be just as effective, and a lot cheaper.

  119. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 23, 2012 at 8:24 PM

    But we sorta got off-topic on the types thing. We need to classify the commentarians, so we will have someone to point fingers at when things don't go our way, like we do with the players and coaches. It's only fair to maintain accountability.

  120. natsfan1a - Jun 23, 2012 at 8:27 PM

    Good idea, sec3. Plus, there's the Gatorade lifting duty and all. Anyhoo, heading out to the P-Nats. Later days, dudes. :-)

  121. DWS - Jun 23, 2012 at 9:08 PM

    Mmmmmmmmmm-beerDoh..Andre Dawson had a slump, Tim Wallach too. Tim Raines made up for it. Part of baseball folks.As somebody posted "life is like a box of chocolates"Enjoy the ride. Not to often the ride comes….

  122. Soul Possession, My Hitterish Sofa - Jun 24, 2012 at 12:53 AM

    Life is like a box of chocolates: a cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for, unreturnable becuase all you ever get back is another box of chocolates, so you're stuck with this unidentifiable whipped mint crap that you mindlessly wolf down when there's nothing left to eat. Sure, once in a while there's a peanut butter cup or an English toffee, but they're gone too fast, and the taste is fleeting. So you end up with up with nothing but broken bits of hardened jelly and teeth-shattering nuts, and if you're desperate enough to eat that, all you have left is an empty box filled with useless brown paper wrappers."

  123. natsfan1a - Jun 24, 2012 at 3:25 AM

    Yes, but the box smells really good. :-)

Archives

NL EAST STANDINGS

W L GB MN
x-WASHINGTON 87 64 -- 0
ATLANTA 76 76 11.5
MIAMI 74 77 13.0
NEW YORK 73 80 15.0
PHILADELPHIA 69 82 18.0
Through Wednesday's early games
x-Clinched division title

UPCOMING SCHEDULE
THU: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
FRI: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
SAT: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
SUN: Nats at Marlins, 1:10 p.m.
MON: OFF
TUE: Mets at Nats, 7:05 p.m.
WED: Mets at Nats, 7:05 p.m.
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