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Boras refutes Mazzone on Strasburg, Avery

Aug 16, 2012, 4:50 PM EDT

Photo courtesy the Associated Press

On Wednesday morning, ESPN 980's Mike and Mike had on a special guest to weigh in on the Stephen Strasburg innings limit. Former Braves' pitching coach Leo Mazzone was asked about the decision to shut down the Nationals ace as he once mentored one of the best starting rotations in MLB history, a group that some have compared to the current one in Washington as far as youth and talent.

Mazzone ripped the Nationals and called their plan "pathetic," siding with the argument that the team should hold nothing back in trying to win a World Series this season.

“And the reason I say that, I’ve got the experience. Youngsters like Steve Avery when he was 21 taking us to a World Series with a group of kids, with Smoltz and Glavine and Avery and Pete Smith and one veteran guy, Leibrandt. Prior to Maddux in ’93 — in ’91 and ’92 — these guys all pitched 200-plus innings. Ok? And everybody had long careers."

To many, the immediate problem jumping out of this particular statement was the citing of Steve Avery. Avery was a tremendous young pitcher who had success early on in his career, but faded after the age of 23 and was out of the league by the age of 29. He never had Tommy John surgery as Strasburg has had, but he isn't exactly a prime example of a lengthy major league pitching career.

One thing Strasburg and Avery do have in common is their agent as Scott Boras once represented Avery some 20 years ago. Boras decided to call in to Mike and Mike the very next morning and spent much of his time on the Avery and Strasburg comparison. Coincidence? Probably not.
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271 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:32 AM

    I'll drink to that Mark, lol

  2. baseballswami - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:32 AM

    Amen!!

  3. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:33 AM

    Thank you Mark!

  4. BIGNAT33 - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:36 AM

    Well stated, Mark. Nice to have a voice of reason put things into proper perspective.

  5. SonnyG10 - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:37 AM

    I've often wondered if people within the Nationals organization read this site. How pleased I am that that is confirmed. Thanks Mark.

  6. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:39 AM

    HI DAVEY!!! HI MIKE!!!;-)

  7. Candide - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:39 AM

    Mark wins.

  8. ehay2k - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:41 AM

    Lol Candide, how do you know Mick isn't having EXTRA coronas to guide him tonight? But I agree, very good posts by Mick tonight. Same goes for peric. Such good insight when shared without eye-gouging. ;-) BTW, I replied to Boz' tweet, including @MikeWiseguy, and "imtroduced them." I invited Wise'to follow Boz in order to "improve his radio show" , where a day earlier he dismissed the very same information. I doubt I'll see a response.

  9. baseballswami - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:41 AM

    So – what's everyone doing tonight without the Nats?

  10. ehay2k - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:42 AM

    Swami, apparently we are all going to post here until the next game!

  11. Grandstander - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:42 AM

    So it's true, Rizzo does read the comments here to decide his next moves!

  12. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:44 AM

    Swami.. I am watching the competition.. but sadly, Chipper is having a great night on his bobblehead day.BTW Mick, I highly recommend Lost Rhino Brewery in Ashburn. Was there earlier for dinner and a tasting. Excellent craft brewery.

  13. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:44 AM

    Thanks, Mark. And hi, Davey and Mike (even if Michele did beat me to that and say it first). ;-)

  14. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:45 AM

    swami…we are all having withdrawal along with you, lol

  15. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:45 AM

    Ex Baby Nats news…Johnny Doskow‏@JDoskowBrad Peacock looks outstanding tonight. Through 5 inn. has allowed 2 hits and no runs. Six strikeouts. 67 pitches 42 strikes

  16. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:47 AM

    ehay2k shhhhhhhh lolMichele… Lost Rhino Brewery in Ashton!I will check it out, thanks a bunch!

  17. ehay2k - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:47 AM

    Grandstander- it's possible that Rizzo looks here, then decided he'd best do the opposite of what we suggest! :-)

  18. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:48 AM

    MICK.. It's ASHBURN.. don't want you to get lost;-)

  19. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:48 AM

    Michele… if Chipper is not voted in 5 years from now into the Hall, there is something seriously wrong.

  20. ehay2k - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:48 AM

    Ashburn mick, Ashburn. ;-)

  21. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:49 AM

    got it Michele, thanks

  22. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:50 AM

    Mick.. ChippA will get in with no problem. Universally respected, excellent numbers, and not a whiff of on field scandals, plus Mets fans hate him, so that is a plus.

  23. ehay2k - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:50 AM

    Mark Z. Can you please put in a countdown timer, like the one you had for Opening Day, but this one for the hours until the next game? Dang withdrawal is killing me, and I am fairly certain that I am not alone.

  24. NCNatsie - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:51 AM

    Thanks, Mark. We're good kids, but sometimes we do need a little adult supervision.

  25. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:51 AM

    Kind of like that Seinfeld episode where George did the opposite. Could be.Agreed re. Chipper, Mick. I also think he could be an X-factor for the Braves this year. Geez, first the Twitta and now a bobblehead. Is there no stopping the man? :-)ehay2k said… Grandstander- it's possible that Rizzo looks here, then decided he'd best do the opposite of what we suggest! :-) August 16, 2012 9:47 PM

  26. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:51 AM

    Michele… well said, Pirate fans hate him too…. 1991 NLCS game 5, lol

  27. baseballswami - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:53 AM

    Tonight reminds me of why I hate the off season. What do non-fans watch on the idiot box, anyway? It's all trash. As for Chipper ….sigh.

  28. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:53 AM

    natsfan1A…. excellent point on Chipper and that is what worries me if we end up playing the Braves.If Chipper becomes Mr October this one last time, it would be a valuable lesson for Bryce to learn from it.

  29. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:54 AM

    I hear you swami

  30. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:55 AM

    ehay2k yup!!!

  31. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:57 AM

    Good point, Mick. If Chipper did become Mr. October one last time, and we weren't in it, I could almost root for the Braves for him. Almost did for Bobby's last season as well, except then they go and show a home game and there's that daggone tomahawk chop. Ugh. Plus, there was the little matter of my brother's SF Giants and all. :-)

  32. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:57 AM

    ehay2k don't us started on Seinfeld, lol George is the man, lol

  33. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:58 AM

    Is there a mercy rule in Little league? I just flipped over to ESPN and Tennesse is beatin up on Nebraska 12-0.. really?

  34. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:58 AM

    natssfan1A lol I would root for Braves and Chipper if our season comes to an end and Braves are left standing.

  35. Eugene in Oregon - Aug 17, 2012 at 1:58 AM

    Mark Z @ 9:29 p.m.,Well said. And thank you for managing such a superb website. Especially for those of us who are distant from DC and Nationals Park, NatsInsider lets us feel like we're there. Thank you.

  36. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:01 AM

    Michele… there might be, what inning is the game in, it would usually be after the 5th inning

  37. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:02 AM

    Also, i know this was brought up earlier by someone, so forgive me..OMG, I am so THRILLED we have Davey and not Bobby V. And our front office/ownership is not Luccino/Hendry? And our players aren't eating fried chicken and drinking beer during games (leave that to fans, we have you covered)! Watching that nightmare up in Boston is like watching my 14 year old niece and her little pack of friends go after each other..Hmmm..Mets Bullpen is cracking in the Reds game.. 6-4 bottom of the 9th with 2 on and 2 out

  38. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:03 AM

    Mark has the best website of any of the professional teams in the DC metro and I would suspect maybe one of the best sports sites in the nation.

  39. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:03 AM

    Mick, it would partly depend on who was still in it for me (if we weren't in it, of course). If the Pirates were in it, I might root for them as the underdog. If my brother's Giants were in it, I'd have to root for them. And, of course, the Chippa Factor. Hopefully I won't have to make these tough choices and can root, root, root for the home team. :-)And agreed, Eugene. Mark's the best.

  40. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:05 AM

    The Red Sox do seem to be a train wreck. To wax Seinfeldian, "They are loathsome, offensive brutes, yet I can't look away." (Okay, maybe that was a little over the top)

  41. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:06 AM

    natsfan1A… my thinking too on Pirtaes, they are a great story. As far as SF and your brother, I will root for them against any AL team. Having said that… I hope I do not get clobbered here… but, I am kinda of am hoping the O's make it in ouch…. fire away everyone, lol

  42. MicheleS - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:07 AM

    Wait! They are using REPLAY in a LITTLE League game for an OUT at the Plate! Paging Bud Selig! You can do this in MLB!

  43. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:08 AM

    O's and Nats in post season would b great for the region and it would help both franchises. maybe I am wrong, but I think it would be very very cool

  44. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:08 AM

    @MicheleS: I'm in 134 down the RF line…Row PP. In the shade. Shall I bring a club sandwich for you? Maybe cookies (even though Det's not pitching)?Please stop by…I'll be there early!Straw Hat.

  45. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:09 AM

    Thanks, Mick. I never followed the O's but I can understand those who have done so being excited about the possibility of their reaching. (I won't get started on the MASN deal.) :-)

  46. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:10 AM

    natsfan1a I hear you about the MASN deal, lol

  47. mick - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:12 AM

    I have enjoyed this evening with all of you. See you all tomorrow night… good night all!!!

  48. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:14 AM

    I think I'll turn in as well (yawn). Good night!

  49. ehay2k - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:17 AM

    If the O's and Nats somehow both make it to the WS, and if by that time the MASN deal has not been renegotiated, we could just buy the Yankees!

  50. NCNatsie - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:34 AM

    Can't root for the O's as long as Angelos is there, though I do love Showalter. He made the funniest comment ever by a commentator a couple of years ago on BB Tonite. Runner on third. Fly ball to right. Outfielder wants to throw the guy out at home. So he backs up to get a his momentum going toward home, then runs in, grabs the ball, takes two giant strides forward and launches the ball with all his might toward home. And Showalter says, "Why isn't that traveling?"

  51. SonnyG10 - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:43 AM

    I would not want to be playing the O's in the WS. MASN would co-mingle the broadcasts and I hate that. Or would MASN get to broadcast the WS?

  52. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:47 AM

    NCNatsie says: "Outfielder wants to throw the guy out at home. So he backs up to get a his momentum going toward home, then runs in, grabs the ball, takes two giant strides forward and launches the ball with all his might toward home. And Showalter says, "Why isn't that traveling?" Now, THAT'S funny.

  53. peric - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:51 AM

    Michele… Lost Rhino Brewery in Ashton!What no love for Ashton, Highland and Sandy Springs? And Olney? Lots of explosive growth, lots of houses, the Intercounty … yeah its kind of depressing to think back …

  54. peric - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:58 AM

    This is why it would be something if Ramos can come back 100% next year, what a lineup!That's kind of the sad thing the guy had both, gold glove defense at catcher and the potential to be a legitimate major league power hitter. However, it did seem like he hadn't completely gotten past his ordeal over the winter. The same level of focus and energy did not seem to be there. So, there's always a silver lining and perhaps that's it. More time to recover from what must been the most traumatic experience someone could ever have.

  55. peric - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:59 AM

    Root Boy slim is probably drinking a Corona right along with you Mick …

  56. pRAA with the ISO - Aug 17, 2012 at 3:16 AM

    SonnyG10 said… I would not want to be playing the O's in the WS. MASN would co-mingle the broadcasts and I hate that. Or would MASN get to broadcast the WS?Nope. Local TV doesn't get any of the playoffs. It's all TBS, Fox and a couple games on MLB Network. WS is on Fox. Hope you like Joe Buck and Tim McCarver.But AFAIK local radio can broadcast the playoffs. That means Charlie and Dave would be on.

  57. Section 222 - Aug 17, 2012 at 3:18 AM

    Excuse me for living, but I just don't get what all the Chipper love is all about. Or the Bobby Cox love either for that matter. Next you'll be telling me what a great guy Dan Uggla is. Ugh. I guess I have a hard time caring about other National League teams and their star players. Except the Pirates, because that's where I grew up and their ownership milked the fans for the last 20 years after Bonds left before finally putting a winner on the field.

  58. sjm308 - Aug 17, 2012 at 3:29 AM

    Hey everyone – sorry to be so late in posting but I just got back from my 3rd concert in 3 days – not great planning but what can you do. At least this one was closer, Strathmore in Rockville.I have been home for awhile but it takes a long time to read 256 comments and actually try to think about some.Peric – nice to see you behaving and its so good to actually read comments and learn your thought process without the negativism towards others.We will disagree on Werth but I do see your point about future years being an issue. I think we all saw that and its not his fault the contract is for so much money or so many years. I think he will play hard and he might even accept that role of mentor and bench player in a couple of years. I would like to hope/think that he has one or two good years left.Non-baseball question. I am guessing you might be a West Coast guy since lots of your posts are later. We have a 10 day trip to San Diego/Escondio/Riverside coming up in Sept. We will see the Padre's play the Cards and plan on driving up the coast for several days. Do you have thoughts on PCH? MichelleS – Justins sounds good. Remember, I am old so you will have to find me. I would love for you to try and help me meet natsjack. My son & I ran into him briefly early in the season but it was very brief.I am now in debt way past Christmas with these playoff tickets. How many NI's bought the extra two strips that were offered (I know 222 did).OK, thats it for now. Mick has probably passed out and I am off to catch up on email. Again, Peric, keep behaving, its very refreshing.

  59. peric - Aug 17, 2012 at 3:40 AM

    We will see the Padre's play the Cards and plan on driving up the coast for several days. Do you have thoughts on PCH? Right after I post my fondness for Ashton, Sandy Springs, Highland and Olney? lol Arrrrghhhhh Montgomery County towns get no respect! Poolsville and Whites Ferry ahhhh a nice relaxing breather from massive traffic swirls.PCH is kind of strip malls and over developed beach towns until you hit Ventura when I suppose it becomes the famous Ventura Highway and up to Santa Barbara … after that its out of Santa Barbara County and into San Luis Obispo County. Point Magu is kind of nice as are the beaches toward Oxnard but nothing compares to the Morros and Montana de Oro. Almost a better Big Sur, but with less renown overlooking an enormous sand spit leading the Gibraltar of the West a huge lava plug created by volcanoes only 26 million years ago. Then its past Cayucos and the beginning of Big Sur in Cambria. Suddenly lots of conifers when just a mile or so back there were none. Then straight on past Ragged Point, Piedras Blancas the gigantic elephant seals and into Big Sur proper. Needless to say the best part of PCH is well to the north of LA. I love cycling it as many miles as I can.

  60. pRAA with the ISO - Aug 17, 2012 at 3:49 AM

    I don't think the sale of extra playoff strips to STH has happened yet. I bought the strip for my seat, but haven't been offered the extra strips yet – unless I missed it. Not that I plan on buying them. It will be expensive enough to renew my plan and buy the one strip for myself.

  61. peric - Aug 17, 2012 at 3:50 AM

    Except the Pirates, because that's where I grew up and their ownership milked the fans for the last 20 years after Bonds left before finally putting a winner on the field.Ha, you'll hate it but I like the Pirates too its why I constantly, almost incessantly get grief for being a fan of Tom Gorzelanny and Zach Duked now 14-5 in AAA Syracuse. Looks like Gerrit Cole is throwing over 100 for them … I do hope they learn from our Nats and don't burn out his arm as they did Gorzo's. And Dukes'. That's the good thing about 'Strasgate' and the Nats record. Teams tend to copy winners. Good habits like those Rizzo is developing need to be spread throughout baseball.

  62. Exposremains - Aug 17, 2012 at 4:05 AM

    I will be very happy when I don't hear the word Chipper and stop seeing the grin on his face. He's been killing this franchise since the early 90s. Can anybody explain to me why the Braves keep winning?

  63. Drew - Aug 17, 2012 at 4:21 AM

    Wait Mick! Here's your bar bet question:A co-worker said this was on the Braves broadcast.Chipper is on a pace to become only the fifth player over the age of 40 to hit .300 with at least 10 homers and at least 50 RBIs. Who are the other four?I actually got them in four guesses, which confirms that I need a life. (Answer is below.)A. Teddy Ballgame, Stan the Man, Paul Molitor and Harold Baines.(P.S. Thanks, Mark for your voice of reason and civility.)

  64. peric - Aug 17, 2012 at 4:35 AM

    Two lefties, two righties and one switch hitter. There's a synergy to it.

  65. Drew - Aug 17, 2012 at 4:38 AM

    SJM:It may be farther up the coast than you want to wander, but the 17-mile drive on the Monterey Peninsula is spectacular.

  66. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Aug 17, 2012 at 4:43 AM

    I hear you, Expos, and I agree Larry has been killing this franchise. But he's a class act, has the numbers, rings and never had a whiff of off-field woes. This will be a good year for the Nats: the Marlins shipped Anabel to the AL and Larry Jones is headed to a rocking chair. I can't stand the guy either, but I wish him well and he's a sure-fire first-ballot HoFer.

  67. Section 222 - Aug 17, 2012 at 5:11 AM

    FYI, on the extra strips — they "invoice" them (i.e., put them on your account ready for you to pay for them) once you renew for next year (putting yourself on a monthly payment plan is sufficient), and ask for them. You have until August 31 to actually pay for them. In the Infield Gallery, which is where my regular seats are (section 314), and which is heavily populated with STHs, all of the seats from 309-318 (I think) were reserved for everyone who has a plan (whether for 20, 40, or 81 games) to be able to buy their own or similar seats for the playoffs. The extra strips in the remaining parts of the Infield Galery are first come first served. Even though I renewed and requested the extra seats right away, my two extra strips are in section 307 (not that there's anything wrong with that, as sjm308 knows). So don't wait to renew for next year and request the extra strips if you want them and haven't done it already. Otherwise, your extra strips could end up being in the Upper Decks. 308, where are your extras? I'm so pumped for baseball in October at Nats Park!

  68. Section 222 - Aug 17, 2012 at 5:16 AM

    peric, you and I agree on Gorzelanny. I don't know much about his pre-Nats career but I'm glad we have him. He's handled the switch to the bullpen like a pro. And obviously, one of my favorite things to see is Gorzo finishing the last two or three innings in a blowout, giving the rest of the bullpen the day off. Reminds me of Elroy Face and his three inning saves.

  69. natsfan1a - Aug 17, 2012 at 12:31 PM

    Not that I feel any need to justify my opinion because, you know, we're each entitled to our own…but what Sunshine said so very well. That, and the guy stuck with one team throughout his career and didn't leave them in his dotage, as it were, to pursue a ring elsewhere (cough, Smoltz – how'd that work out, btw? :-)).Section 222 said… Excuse me for living, but I just don't get what all the Chipper love is all about. Or the Bobby Cox love either for that matter. Next you'll be telling me what a great guy Dan Uggla is. Ugh. I guess I have a hard time caring about other National League teams and their star players. Except the Pirates, because that's where I grew up and their ownership milked the fans for the last 20 years after Bonds left before finally putting a winner on the field. August 16, 2012 11:18 PM Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said… I hear you, Expos, and I agree Larry has been killing this franchise. But he's a class act, has the numbers, rings and never had a whiff of off-field woes. This will be a good year for the Nats: the Marlins shipped Anabel to the AL and Larry Jones is headed to a rocking chair. I can't stand the guy either, but I wish him well and he's a sure-fire first-ballot HoFer. August 17, 2012 12:43 AM

  70. NatsFanSinceStart - Aug 17, 2012 at 2:11 PM

    It's interesting to me to watch and listen to all these 'analysts' who seem to know what is best for Stras and the Nats. The mindset is what interests me — and it says all you need to know of their sport mentality — they're not smart enough to call a 'philosophy.' So many of these 'analysts' think and state that nothing gets in the way of a world series, not even the long term health and longetivity of a young pitcher who could and should have a long and productive career. Nope. They insist that the Nats are stupid and that we should go for broke this year and Stras' health be damned.Well, say Rizzo doesn't shut him down, as the crowd wishes. Next year, when Stras is worn down and/or re-injured what will they be saying then? I suspect they'll call Rizzo and complete idiot for pitching him and call for his firing.And why is it that most true Nationals fans are in Rizzo's corner? Afterall, it's our team. We spend our money when planting our fannies in those seats — they don't.Riz: We are with you; shut him down. For the good of Stras, the team, and baseball.

Archives

NL EAST STANDINGS

W L GB
x-WASHINGTON 91 64 --
ATLANTA 76 79 15.0
NEW YORK 76 80 15.5
MIAMI 74 81 17.0
PHILADELPHIA 71 85 20.5
x-Clinched NL East title
Through Sunday's games

NL PLAYOFFS STANDINGS

W L GB WCGB
x-WASHINGTON (4) 91 64 --
y-LOS ANGELES 89 67 2.5
y-ST. LOUIS 87 68 4.0
-------------------------
SAN FRANCISCO 84 71 7.0 --
PITTSBURGH 84 71 7.0 --
MILWAUKEE 80 76 11.5 4.5
x-Clinched division title
y-Clinched playoff berth
Through Sunday's early games

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TUE: Mets at Nats, 7:05 p.m.
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FRI: Marlins at Nats (DH), 1:05 p.m., 7:05 p.m.
SAT: Marlins at Nats, 4:05 p.m.
SUN: Marlins at Nats, 1:35 p.m.
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