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The Nats’ all-time leaderboard

Nov 1, 2012, 11:00 AM EST

US Presswire photo
Ryan Zimmerman, not surprisingly, leads many offensive categories.

This has become one of my favorite annual blog posts: the revised Nationals all-time statistical leaderboard. It's both a fun trip down memory lane and (these days) a reminder of how far the organization has come from its humble past.

Some of the categories are stats of longevity (games played, home runs, wins, saves). Some of them are stats of performance over a minimum number of plate appearances or innings pitched (batting average, OPS, ERA, WHIP). And new this year is the all-encompassing WAR stat, which attempts to show exactly how many wins (above the mythical replacement player) one person has been responsible for over their Nationals careers (you'll notice I also included the two players in Nationals history with the lowest WAR figures.)

With each passing season, new players join the top-10 leaderboards while others get lopped off the bottom. As always, I offer the advance warning that reading these names may cause such extreme emotional reactions as laughter, sobbing and possibly spontaneous combustion.

So with that, here are the Nationals' updated all-time stat leaderboards…

BATTING
 GAMES PLAYED
  1. Ryan Zimmerman     2005-12       990
  2. Cristian Guzman    2005-10       550

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137 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. Sam D. Mann - Nov 1, 2012 at 11:27 AM

    Typo I suppose on Zim's All-time Hits stat – that should be 1,110.

  2. natsfan1a - Nov 1, 2012 at 11:38 AM

    On another note (from the SJ Mercury news Giants blog), I heart Marco Scutaro even more now. :-)"Scutaro joked that he already knows what he’s looking for in a new deal.'I want 15 years, three thousand-million dollars,' he said, smiling. 'How do you like me now?'The Giants like him plenty. Scutaro’s approach at the plate rubbed off on the rest of the lineup and he hit .362 after being acquired from the Colorado Rockies at the trade deadline. Scutaro carried that success into the postseason and was the MVP of the National League Championship Series.After winning his first title, Scutaro, 37, said he would like to return to San Francisco."

  3. MicheleS - Nov 1, 2012 at 11:51 AM

    Mark you said it, sobbing, laughter and much groaning at the names on that list. Each year the names will change.

  4. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:06 PM

    RZ will be WAR leader for a decade more at least. Soriano's slugging and Johnson's OBP are also hard to beat.anyways, looking at free agents, I still like BJ a little bit because if anyone is capable of replicating something close to soriano's historic season in DC, it is BJ. He nearly put up 30-30-30 season this past summer. But his hit profile is horrible. And someone might overpay for his services too.

  5. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:16 PM

    Most remarkable stats: Detwiler 4th in starts, 5th in IP. Most incredible stat: H. Rodriguez 8th in saves. Most of these stats tell stories beyond the nos., e.g., importance of Desmond, Espinosa in the day-to-day lineup.Only early Nat statistically worth pining for: Nick Johnson.

  6. natsfan1a - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:21 PM

    As my Chicago baseball was fond of saying back in the day, Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiick… :-)

  7. sjm308 - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:28 PM

    Theo: I might add that the season Soriano had was a wonder to behold. Added to the fact that he was playing a position he had never played before and I believe led the league in assists that year as well. He was, of course, not worth what the Cubs payed but the only person capable of doing what he did that year is Bryce and Davey will not let him steal 40 bases. Mark: thanks for this. I actually liked Guzman and a couple of others on this list as I was just thrilled to have a team back in my city. We honestly did cheer and moan often in the same game or inning. This has nothing to do with the players but a fond memory is how easy it was to go to your season ticket seat for about 30 sec and then move down at RFK to great seats with no issues. Don't think we will ever see that with this group, in this stadium.Go Nats!!

  8. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:30 PM

    Wow – this was so interesting. Impressions – Zim truly is the face of the franchise, but Harper is making inroads already. Pitching — Lannan has paid his dues with this team, Jordan looking like a veteran even with his year off. Prominent names – Morse, Nick Johnson, Clippard – recurring. Craig Stammen showing up a lot. Too many wins by relief pitchers. The much-maligned Drew Storen waaay up there in WHIP.I feel that I will have to go back to this several more times to soak it in. THANKS! I love this stuff! And yes, I had some groans as well.

  9. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:41 PM

    I would never pine for Soriano, under any circumstances. He tried to hold his team hostage up to the edge of Opening Day. Now that his physical tools are waning he finally appears to be appreciating the value of playing for the team. Nuts to him.

  10. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:46 PM

    SJM re Soriano — Any time an outfielder leads the league in assists, consider the perspective from the other side: every third base coach in the league thinks he can run on a chicken-wing arm. I always think of the year Johnny Callison led the league in assists (19?) from RF, which only reflected the no. of teams willing to take a chance on his arm going from first to third.

  11. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 12:48 PM

    Harper had, I think, eight assists for the whole season, a reasonable no., because opposing teams saw his arm, respected it, and didn't challenge it very often.

  12. natsfan1a - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:03 PM

    Also, at least some of us were saying "Guz." :-)That first season was special. As my husband and I were leaving RFK after the last game, I got a little teary-eyed. He said, "Is it because they lost?" I said, "No, it's because the season is over and it will never be the same again." Not that I haven't enjoyed this ride, mind you, but, like I said, that was special. I'll always reserve a fond corner in my heart for the dump where I fell in love with my Nats. :-)Mark: thanks for this. I actually liked Guzman and a couple of others on this list as I was just thrilled to have a team back in my city. We honestly did cheer and moan often in the same game or inning. This has nothing to do with the players but a fond memory is how easy it was to go to your season ticket seat for about 30 sec and then move down at RFK to great seats with no issues. Don't think we will ever see that with this group, in this stadium.

  13. alm - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:06 PM

    Love this list, thanks Mark.A couple of memories:Those early days in RFK are a fond memory. Nick the stick was great, but he never learned to slide, kinda did a barrel roll into second or home. I remember in Sept 05 when Zim was called up. My son got Zim's signature on a team ball (29 signatures plus Frank – had to pay for him) on Sept. 1 and it was in the sweet spot. We were still – kinda – in the race in early Sept and we were always mad that Frank kept playing Castilla until we were out of it. In 06 the team was BAD but there were a couple of notables, #1 was Soriano's 40/40 season, mentioned above. The other was from a name that makes the list above only once – #10 in loses, Ramon Ortiz. Remember his no-hitter into the 9th and when he hit a home run in the bottom of the 8th. Bowden threw a bunch of papers out or the window from the owners suite.I also remember hating Sunday games in 05 and 06 when Frank would empty the bench and sit the regulars.Looking forward to season tickets again this year – Sec 312, row H. Haven't had full season tickets since 06. In 3 years lots of old names will drop off the list – looking forward to watching this team get better and better.GO NATS!

  14. sm13 - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:07 PM

    Swami- agree that its good to see Craig Stammen sprinkled across the lists – he's toiled in the fields for quite a while before this year's breakout. I also get the sense that Morse is a consistent offensive star, as long as he can stay healthy. Maybe next year Lastngs Milledge wilk drop off the board completely.

  15. natsfan1a - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:10 PM

    lol at the memories of Nick's slide. Loved the guy, but he was one ugly slider. :-) I was listening to the radio at home (didn't have cable then) for the Ortiz no-no bid and just pacing the floor in the late innings.

  16. natsfan1a - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:11 PM

    btw, you know who had a really pretty pop-up slide? Jamey Carroll, that's who.

  17. Traveler8 - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:36 PM

    I'm surprised that Detwiler is on so many lists, also am remembering what a splash of excitement Alfonso Soriano was for us. I think that next year's list, with the team approximately the same as this year, will be more representative of the way we see the team.

  18. Doug - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:41 PM

    Anybody have any thoughts on grabbing Haren for $12M for a 1 year rental? I know he had a rough year with an above 4 ERA but he would be in a contract year and taking a chance on him for 1 year with no long term committment (very similar to Edwin) would be a great risk to take. Not sure what we would have to give up (low/mid level prospect maybe?). A rotation of Stras, Gio, JZimm, Haren and Det could rival the best of all time.

  19. MicheleS - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:45 PM

    If you are on twitter.. Morse is bored this morning.. doing random "Hi" tweets to people.

  20. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 1:59 PM

    Would take Haren over Jackson in a heartbeat, but that's not saying much. Seems to have had some injury issues last year, after six seasons of well over 200 innings. Not sure whether that's an aberration or a sign that the tires are worn out. Among the FAs/probable FAs out there, he would be at the top of my short list but, in general, the idea of paying six figures for a one-year rental leaves me cold, espec. before I know whether I have to spend money/trade pieces to replace LaRoche's bat. Reading Kilgore's piece re salaries, signing Haran would mean pushing the payroll up well over $100MM. (And his arbitration nos. seemed conservative.) Not saying Nats couldn't afford it, just not sure they're ready to do it.

  21. Tcostant - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:10 PM

    My random thoughts:1. Zimmerman is truly the face of this franchise2. Desmond has been around longer than most think3. The Nationals don’t steal a lot of bases4. Alfonso Soriano had one special season here in 20065. Did Elijah Dukes really have that high on on-base percentage?6. Detwiler is 5th in innings pitched, amazingBetter times are ahead.

  22. sjm308 - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:30 PM

    Theo: you can dislike Soriano for trying to get more money then he honestly deserved but his season was still one of the finest in MLB the last 8 years and he was a Washington National. We were honestly so bad and had so little to cheer for that it helped me get through a miserable season. I did not want him back for the money he was asking but he did have a great season. That is enough for me looking back. Can't wait to see how many people come off that list in the next two years. Hard to believe Lopez is on there for hits and I see Werth & Harper pushing him off. I agree with Tcosant that better times not only are ahead but they are here!!!

  23. A DC Wonk - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:30 PM

    Other amazing stats:- Willie Harris 5th all time in games (to go with .229)- Soriano 6th and 5th in HR/SB despite only one season- Gio tied for fourth in wins despite only one season- Clippard tied for fourth in wins despite mostly being a reliever- seeing _six_ guys in the top 10 in WAR that are still on the team!!

  24. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:32 PM

    I have been rooting for Haren in Nats uni since I heard Angels are not interested in him as their starter. However, I would give them a low level prospect or two at best for eating all that salary. we can give some relievers who have no options. I think Angels are in market for relievers.

  25. Doug - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:36 PM

    Theo – Didn't realize payroll was going up so much with current players under contract…Figured it would just substitute for Edwin's $11M contract. Still, I wouldn't put it past Rizzo to make the move given there is no long term commitment.

  26. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:37 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  27. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:42 PM

    I think if we get Haren, then Ejax would be stupid to accept the qualifying offer knowing that he has no job with Nationals and they will be forced to trade him to any team for just one more season. Ejax will be in the market for multi-year deal.

  28. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM

    Sjm308, agree with you. Soriano had one if the best offensive years in history. He just couldn't be a superstar for the Cubs and it backfired.That is how a good legacy can be ruined in Free Agency but money seems to outweigh legacy. Strange how many FAs have flopped after leaving DC – note to Adam L.

  29. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM

    Doug, Theo, I think Haren for 1 year is exactly the right approach. Decent upside with no long term commitment.

  30. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:47 PM

    Wait. Did we give EJax the qualifying offer? I wasn't aware.

  31. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:49 PM

    My entire premise re Haren is based on giving the Angels a non prospect and letting them pick up some of his salary. I am talking about: Trevor Holder, Eric Komatsu, Tanner Roarke etc.

  32. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 2:55 PM

    best stat I like about Haren is his BB ratio. It becomes best of our rotation and then good enough KK ratio leads to even better KK/BB ratio. He is a veteran pitcher with some postseason experience. I think he will fit in nicely.

  33. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 3:00 PM

    JD, from fangraphs' opinion that whoever trades for Haren, will be paying 12 to 12.5 million while giving up a C- prospect. I think we can easily do that.

  34. Water23 - Nov 1, 2012 at 3:43 PM

    I agree got get Haren. If Ejax signs the qualifying offer all the better. Having Haren, Ejax, Lannan, Morse all on one year deals is a lot of value to move if need or want arises. Gotta think, Houston, LAA, Toronto and others all might like a solid 3/4 starter.Also, if Haren returns to form then he is FA next year with compensation.Nice!!!

  35. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 3:55 PM

    JD said… Wait. Did we give EJax the qualifying offer? I wasn't aware. November 01, 2012 10:47 AM I don't think they have. I don't think teams start doing that until after Saturday but there may still be some risk of doing it with EJax as some think $13.3 million may be more than teams will be offering on a multi-year deal which leaves the possibility that if you give EJax a qualifying offer, he may accept it. I would put those odds as slim that Edwin would accept it as he may take his chances and covet a multi-year deal more than maximizing his contract value for just 2013.

  36. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM

    Water23 said… I agree got get Haren. If Ejax signs the qualifying offer all the better. Having Haren, Ejax, Lannan, Morse all on one year deals is a lot of value to move if need or want arises.Let's say EJax takes the 1 year $13.3 qualifying offer from the Nats and then the Nats try to trade him. There is a good chance the Nats would have to eat part of that salary. Its a $3 million gamble although I agree they can get a decent prospect for him.This will be an interesting development.

  37. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:01 PM

    Also, I see all the Dan Haren love here. He was a 4.33 ERA and missed some games for injury. Prior to last year, he was a top of the rotation starter.I'm concerned why the Angels don't want him. For those that like him, are you sure he isn't regressing? If you think he gets back to form, again, why don't the Angels want him?http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/5565/dan-haren

  38. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:04 PM

    By the way, Adam LaRoche and Sean Burnett have officially declined their mutual options. No surprise there.

  39. Veronica - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:15 PM

    Loved seeing Danny Espinosa on so many of the lists. He's had his issues, sure, but if he can get his head straightened out—ala, Desmond—I believe he can be a big key to the team's success.

  40. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:16 PM

    From Kilgore: "LaRoche and Burnett have said thye would like to stay in Washington, and both players and the Nationals are free to negotiate a new contract. The Red Sox and Orioles are the teams with the most obvious first base need."Doesn't Kilgore have spell-check? "Thye"? Also his statement that the Red Sox and O's are the teams with the most obvious first base need is short-sighted and lazy on his part. The Rangers have possibly the most need to add a big slugger as they will likely lose Josh Hamilton and will have the money to spend and they have been weak at 1st base. I could see them going after Bourn or BJ Upton for CF and LaRoche for 1st. The O's won't spend the money and would LaRoche go to a team that traded him a few weeks after they acquired him? I have to believe "been there done that" but LaRoche has to decide.I always believe loyalty runs both ways but its also a business both ways.

  41. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:17 PM

    that's a very good question. are there any injury concerns to this guy we have not heard about? declining velocity over multiple seasons?however, his ratios have remained about the same over the same seasons. also his plate discipline numbers are not bad.http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=1757&position=PAll those number of innings since his age 24 season catching up to him? I don't know. He might seem like a risky move but if this move pans out, we have a very good 1-5.Also reason Angels don't want Haren and Santana is because they are saving up for Greinke.By the way, what do we do in case ALR walks? It is a given that Morse occupies 1B but what about the LF opening? Moore?I like Choo as an option also. 20/20 guy with good defense.I would like to target Affeldt in case Burnett walks. Should not be much difficult to attract free agents now.

  42. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:19 PM

    Veronica said… Loved seeing Danny Espinosa on so many of the lists. He's had his issues, sure, but if he can get his head straightened out—ala, Desmond—I believe he can be a big key to the team's success. November 01, 2012 12:15 PM I will say it again, Desmond's biggest problem was his approach at the plate and working on minor mechanical issues.Espi from the left side has approach and mechanical issues and when he is slumping which is often he just doesn't see the ball well.This is a major problem. Many deep slumps and a few hot streaks.Yes, I hope he fixes himself but the constant Desi/Espi comparisons is just getting OLD.

  43. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:25 PM

    Ghost, Haren very well may be regressing but I like the 1 year portion of this idea because the risk in that case is reasonable and minimal as opposed to making a 3 – 4 year commitment to someone in that age group. I think that the fact that ALR and the Nats have not come together yet does not bode well for his return. If I am reading this right (I am speculating) I think the Nats are fairly adamant on a 2 year max and ALR is likely looking for one more contract where he can settle down for the rest of his career.

  44. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:29 PM

    Faraz, Morse at 1st and Moore in left = weaker defense at 2 positions and I don't think we will go there. There are several approaches here: 1) Morse to 1st and one of Brown, Bernie in left. 2) Morse to 1st, Werth to left, Bryce to Right and a new center fielder. 3) Morse part of a big trade and Moore to 1st. 4) None of the above. I think for the time being ALR at 1st is still the best option but it will be interesting.

  45. Feel Wood - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:31 PM

    there may still be some risk of doing it with EJax as some think $13.3 million may be more than teams will be offering on a multi-year deal which leaves the possibility that if you give EJax a qualifying offer, he may accept it. I would put those odds as slim that Edwin would accept it as he may take his chances and covet a multi-year deal more than maximizing his contract value for just 2013.If they extend EJax a qualifying offer, how long until he has to make the decision to accept it? Can he string the Nats along while he sees what kind of offers he gets from other teams, and then if weeks or months go by and he doesn't get one he likes, he can take the $13.3M from the Nats? Since other decisions they need to make this offseason are dependent on whether or not EJax returns, that could leave them in limbo for a long time while players they might want are signed by other teams. Picking up a draft choice may not be worth that kind of risk.

  46. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:31 PM

    Ghost, We are not really comparing Espi to Desi. All we are saying is that Espi is too young, too athletic and too talented to give up on just yet and like it or not some of the criticism of Espi is very similar to what we heard about Desi a year and a half ago.

  47. hiramhover - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:34 PM

    Haren for 1 year is appealing not just to the Nats but other teams as well–the Red Sox are reportedly pursuing him. I doubt given the current strength of the Nats rotation they'd be willing to give up as much as some other teams.On ALR–I don't think it's that uncommon for these negotiations to go down to the wire. I wouldn't read too much into it.

  48. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:35 PM

    Feel Wood, I agree. Especially a sandwich pick in a weak draft class. I hope that that ship has sailed.

  49. hiramhover - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:36 PM

    Feel WoodOnce a qualifying offer is extended, the player has 7 days to accept it.

  50. Feel Wood - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:38 PM

    Doesn't Kilgore have spell-check? "Thye"?Spell-check is Kilgore's Kryptonite. Also his statement that the Red Sox and O's are the teams with the most obvious first base need is short-sighted and lazy on his part.Although the O's declined to pick up Mark Reynolds' 2013 option, he is apparently still under team control and will be arbitration eligible. It's doubtful they would non-tender him, so the only way he won't be available to play first base for them next year is if he's traded. I'm pretty sure they thought he was okay at first last year (at third, not so much) so if they have him why would they want LaRoche?

  51. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:39 PM

    hiramhover, I am surprised more teams are not linked with Haren because you are right that haren could possibly be the steal of this off-season.

  52. Veronica - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:40 PM

    Thanks, JD. That's exactly what I was saying. It was a surprise to me to see him on so many of the lists, after reading comment after comment lambasting him for different things on here. You tend to forget that he's that young, because he seems very mature. You also tend to forget that he's already made quite the impact on the team.

  53. Veronica - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:42 PM

    And the only reason I brought up Desi is because it shows that sometimes patience can pay off.

  54. Water23 - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:50 PM

    Ghost, the downside on Ejax in another solid year out of a good pitcher. Upside is compensation, as someone will offer him a multi-year deal.Fariz, I think that if ALR walks then Morse to 1B, Harper to LF and Bourn/Upton to CF.or Greinke to SP, Morse to 1B, Moore to LF and Harper Hold CF.

  55. A DC Wonk - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:53 PM

    Veronica said… And the only reason I brought up Desi is because it shows that sometimes patience can pay off.Indeed — especially when known and proven terrific talent evaluators (Rizzo and Davey) think Espi has tremendous upside.Desi is a year older. Our wish is that just as Desi came into his own this year, Espi does so next year!

  56. Water23 - Nov 1, 2012 at 4:57 PM

    JD,I hope that ship does not sail. 1) it is more than a sandwich pick it is that plus either a first round pick or second round pick. Having more picks is even more important since the new draft $$$ pool is determine by # picks and their position. 2) Good teams are constantly restocking their prospect pools so that they can either get cheaper major leaguers or trade them for MLB players. Now, I do agree the Nats have moved on from doing assessment on whether to extend a player receives a qualifying offer because that is the only way the team will improved but I think it is prudent to keep restocking.

  57. hiramhover - Nov 1, 2012 at 5:12 PM

    Water23Not sure I understand your first point. Under the new system, the sandwich round pick is the only compensation to the team losing a free agent. If the Nats make a qualifying offer to EJax and he declines it to sign with another team, then the new team loses a first or second round pick, but the Nats don't get that pick, as in the old system–now, it just disappears. So it's a cost to the new team, but not a direct benefit to the old team.

  58. sm13 - Nov 1, 2012 at 5:17 PM

    Doesn't Dan Haren have back issues? That could be a big gamble for $12 m. Seems like we'd be better off bringing back EJax, who has similar numbers and better health.

  59. Water23 - Nov 1, 2012 at 5:35 PM

    hiramhover,my mistake, I thought they got both.

  60. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:01 PM

    How much of Mauer's salary Twins will have to eat for Nationals to get interested? I wish Twins had not offered him that gargantuan contract. He plays 1B and C, walks more than Ks, and has some pop (that will recover further once moved out of Target Field I believe). Too bad about that contract and injury history.

  61. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:03 PM

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  62. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:07 PM

    Jackson, according to my understanding, has five days to accept/decline the "qualifying" offer. Which is about the only thing that would justify it. The best scenario — from a just desserts standpoint — would be Nats make the offer; Jackson declines; the notion of having to give up a draft choice to sign stale cheese drives down his market price.

  63. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:11 PM

    Maybe that's the story behind the story — Jackson switched agents because he didn't want a fight w/ Boras over accepting the one-year offer he saw coming.

  64. hiramhover - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:18 PM

    TheoTeams have five days to make the offer (after WS); after the offer is made, the player has 7 days to accept. Fangraphs had a good run-down:http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-qualifying-offer-and-you/

  65. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:25 PM

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  66. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:31 PM

    Gonat, Haren's upside is much higher than Lannen's I believe. Completely depends on Haren's health.

  67. Tcostant - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:32 PM

    Some asked: "If they extend EJax a qualifying offer, how long until he has to make the decision to accept it?" A: November 9th, he can gage the market and then decide, I like that it isn't a date after Thanksgiving.BTW – I agree, I think ALR is gone. Once he hots the market I think the Pirates offer at least 3 years and $40M, which seems to be out of the Nationals price range. I'll miss him, but that is a lot of money to turn dowm.

  68. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:32 PM

    If the Angels cut Haren loose they are on the hook for $3.5 million or they can pay him the $15 million to keep him and hope he is once again a top of the rotation starter or work out a deal with another trade in a sign and trade where they would probably have to eat some of the $15 million. Seems to be a lot less risky alternatives out there for a lot less money….hmmmm….John Lannan anyone? Rizzo obviously knows Dan Haren but this is clearly a reclamation project while EJax was the hope you got him to give you how he finished 2011 and improve him which also didn't work.Just thinking risk vs reward since the Nats can wait for July 31st and Dan Haren could very likely be available then along with other options.

  69. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:37 PM

    Tcostant said… BTW – I agree, I think ALR is gone. Once he hots the market I think the Pirates offer at least 3 years and $40M, which seems to be out of the Nationals price range. I'll miss him, but that is a lot of money to turn dowm. November 01, 2012 2:32 PM __________________________________I think he is gone also because of what I read from Ladson 'LaRoche said Wednesday that he hasn't talked to the Nationals in about a week and the two parties were at the beginning stages of contract negotiations.'It seems every time we hear the radio silence it is over. Maybe its a negotiating tactic. Who knows. I hope he stays but I also have enough faith in Rizzo that he has a plan and he was right about Dunn and others he has let walk.

  70. Feel Wood - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:54 PM

    It seems every time we hear the radio silence it is over. Maybe its a negotiating tactic.(a) No one ever reveals details of an ongoing negotiation, so the "radio silence" means nothing.(b) Both LaRoche and the Nats are on record that they want him back. Both sides know that there is going to be interest from other teams. There is a whole spectrum of deals that can be worked out to bring LaRoche back that ranges from him giving them a "hometown discount" to the team overpaying in order to match another offer, and everything in between. But none of those deals can happen until he finds out what other teams would be willing to give him – because that's the only way a hometown discount or an overpayment can be gauged. So expect nothing to happen until he hits the open market and his true market value is determined. After that, things may fall into place quickly since whatever discussions they've had so far have probably resulted in establishing the upper and lower bounds of his possible contract.

  71. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:56 PM

    What I like about Haren is he uses all of his pitches. He throws 4 fastballs, 4 seam, 2 seam, cutter and split finger and the occassional curveball and pitches to contact with swing & miss stuff. He moves the ball all over the strike zone but prefers down and in.The negative is that he was pitching in the AL West which is weak if you are pitching for the Angels as you only have to face the Rangers. The A's came on but he pitched 5 times against Seattle and 4 times against the A's.He pitched 11 of his 30 games were poor performances in 2012.

  72. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 6:57 PM

    Feel Wood, I was just quoting what Ladson wrote as to what LaRoche said. Take it for what you will.

  73. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:05 PM

    Pirates make no sense for LaRoche for four reasons:(1) He's been there, done that, got the T-shirt — they didn't want to pay the money before so why should they want to now?(2) They've got a relatively cheap, controllable, part-time 1B who hit 26 homers (and uses a hockey goalkeeper's blocker for a glove).(3) Pittsburgh isn't going to win a pennant until after LaRoche has retired.(4) Nobody in his right mind would want to live in Pittsburgh anyway. The real competition is Texas (need to replace LH power) though, arguably, Boston (see #1, above) or Seattle (LaRoche is a left-coaster and might be comfortable among those relocated Californians) might be in it.

  74. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:18 PM

    So I heard on the radio that ALR and Burnett had declined their options. What does that mean exactly? Is that what we were expecting? So they both become free agents or do we still have until Saturday morning to talk to ALR about a deal that is not an option type thing.? Waiting…..

  75. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:23 PM

    Swami, Yes it was expected and yes they will both be free agents on Saturday. This does not mean that the Nats can't make a deal with them after Saturday it just means that they lose the exclusive right to negotiate with them. If you are a few days away from becoming a free agent why would you give away that option? If you are determined to stay with the Nats and vice versa and there was a deal to be made it would have happened a long time ago.

  76. Jim Webster - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:23 PM

    Fascinating look back at history.FWIW, MLB trade rumors predicting we get Bourne, resign ALR, and see Burnett go to Cards and EJax to Blue Jays. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/10/2013-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions-1.html

  77. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:28 PM

    Thanks, JD. I usually consider myself to be pretty up on baseball stuff, but some of the contract things boggle my mind. I am also feeling out of the loop because I heard the Marlins hired a new manager and I had to google him. Not exactly a household name. I need to catch up. I guess being a former catcher is the A plus, number 1 qualification these days for being a new manager.

  78. Tcostant - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:31 PM

    Feel Wood said… (b) Both LaRoche and the Nats are on record that they want him back. Both sides know that there is going to be interest from other teams. There is a whole spectrum of deals that can be worked out to bring LaRoche back that ranges from him giving them a "hometown discount" to the team overpaying in order to match another offer, and everything in between. But none of those deals can happen until he finds out what other teams would be willing to give him – because that's the only way a hometown discount or an overpayment can be gauged. So expect nothing to happen until he hits the open market and his true market value is determined. After that, things may fall into place quickly since whatever discussions they've had so far have probably resulted in establishing the upper and lower bounds of his possible contract.Me – I usually agree with most of your post, but this one is off base IMO/ Agents cane get a good sence of what their players will command on the open market. Just because both ALR and the Nationals have expressed that they love each other; doesn't mean at the same price. The Nationals have a # years in mind and $$$ and so does ALR; if these were similar he would have signed already. Once the market confirms what ALR value (and the numbers ALR's agent has telling him he can get), unless the Nationals make a major increase in their offer. This is how the stuff works.I know the Nationals wouldn't do this last year because of a playoff race, but the Phils play the Hamels contract just right. Gage a fair market, know he will cost more in the offseason and therefore get him sign or trade him at the deadline. The Phils did everything right there, while the Mets a year earlier blew it with Jose Reyes not getting anything but draft picks for him.End of rant. But in summary , I think ALR is gone, but I would be happy to be wrong!

  79. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:38 PM

    Swami, The interesting part of the Marlins move is that it appears to be a Baseball move rather than an effort to make a big splash (Ozzie), placate the Hispanic community (Gonzalez and Rodriguez) etc. He is moving up from managing 'A' ball so you never know. I wish the Marlins nothing but continued bad luck as long as they are owned by that scumbag Loria.

  80. NatsLady - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:43 PM

    Lefty reliever–Rick Ankiel?

  81. Feel Wood - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:49 PM

    Seattle (LaRoche is a left-coaster and might be comfortable among those relocated Californians) might be in it.Dude, he's a deer hunter who lives in Kansas. Not a left coaster. He graduated high school in Kansas. He was only born in California because his father happened to be pitching for the A's at the time.

  82. Feel Wood - Nov 1, 2012 at 7:54 PM

    The Nationals have a # years in mind and $$$ and so does ALR; if these were similar he would have signed already.Not quite. Both sides no doubt have ranges in mind that they would accept, not absolute years/$. The ranges may even overlap. Indeed they would have to, or one or both sides would already be sending negative signals out, like happened with Dunn. Once a third party team enters the conversation, that will establish exactly where in the acceptable ranges a deal can be found.

  83. natsfan1a - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM

    Plus, the fans there boo him like crazy. We don't do that here (just ask his folks about that point). :-)Theophilus T. S. said… Pirates make no sense for LaRoche for four reasons: (1) He's been there, done that, got the T-shirt — they didn't want to pay the money before so why should they want to now? (2) They've got a relatively cheap, controllable, part-time 1B who hit 26 homers (and uses a hockey goalkeeper's blocker for a glove). (3) Pittsburgh isn't going to win a pennant until after LaRoche has retired. (4) Nobody in his right mind would want to live in Pittsburgh anyway. The real competition is Texas (need to replace LH power) though, arguably, Boston (see #1, above) or Seattle (LaRoche is a left-coaster and might be comfortable among those relocated Californians) might be in it. November 01, 2012 3:05 PM

  84. Theophilus T. S. - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:10 PM

    Feel Wood — Appreciate the point about Kansas.

  85. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:14 PM

    any idea why This Year in Baseball Award nominees are not out yet?

  86. Scooter - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM

    Not sure, Faraz. Of course, I also don't know what a This Year in Baseball Award is, so I'll just shut up now and take my answer off the air.

  87. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:27 PM

    I think Feelwood made some good points on LaRoche. Gonats point is a eerily familiar slap of reality in the been there category but let's hope this outcome is a good one for the Nats.

  88. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:29 PM

    LOL, scooter, it is also referred to as GIBBY (Greatness in Baseball Yearly) award. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/y2011/gibbys/

  89. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:57 PM

    Ghost, If there was a deal to be made for either LaRoche or Burnett why wouldn't it have been done by now? Once the FA option is available the odds of resigning decrease substantially. I could be wrong but that's how I see it.

  90. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 8:58 PM

    Haren reminds me somewhat of Roy Oswalt in 2011 at the age of 33. He said he was over his back troubles and he was downright horrible in 2012.I don't think the Nats should take a chance on a reclamation project unless they had a stud in AAA like the team did in 2010 with Strasburg. There doesn't seem to be a fallback stud in AAA if Haren regresses in 2013.Just a gut feeling, I believe Lannan will have a career year because he is very incentivized this year. This is his year to shine as he heads into Free Agency after the 2013 season. As was pointed out, Lannan had a great year for the Nats in a small sample size. He had the one lousy start vs the Dodgers but all the rest were at an ERA of 2.83Also for those who keep calling Lannan a soft tosser. Lannan's average fastball in his last start was 89mph and Haren's was 88mph.

  91. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:01 PM

    JD at 4:57, I'm not optimistic on LaRoche but I think.Feelwood made some valid points on the strategy of both sides, its possible or like Gonat said based in Ladsons quote, not encouraging.

  92. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:06 PM

    Gonat, The reason Lannan is considered a soft tosser is that he has a lousy strike out to BB ration (about 5 to 4 last year). Haren's ratio in an off year was still about 7 to 2 which is only slightly off his career norm. I agree with you that Lannan will be very motivated to succeed next year I,m just not convinced that he has the tools to do so consistently throughout the year.

  93. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:08 PM

    Gonat, good points on Haren. 88mph average fastball, didn't know that. I remember when he was low 90's.SOFT TOSSER alert!

  94. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:12 PM

    BTW, I am totally fine with Lannan in the 5th slot.

  95. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM

    JD, I only care about pitchers that give up less runs because thats how you win games.Jordan Zimmermann throws very hard and bought into McCatty who is correct that you pitch to contact where you throw with movement and get weaker contact.Haren is just under 1 HR per game on average and while he has a good K/BB ratio, he still gave up 4 1/3 runs per game last year.Unless you say he translates well to the Nats, why risk it for $12 to $15 million.The Nats took a smaller risk on EJax and the only reason EJax looked overly attractive is because he turned his 2011 around under the guidance of Dave Duncan with the Cardinals and that's what I at least thought the Nats were getting worse case and recall Rizzo talking about his quirky delivery that they were going to fix to make him even better. EJax totally regressed and can only be seen as a failure based on what Rizzo anticapted in his Presser when he was signed.

  96. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:23 PM

    JD, Lannan is essentially on a 1 year deal. I'm still hoping for a 3 year deal on Lohse and trading Lannan.

  97. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:26 PM

    Gonat, Lannan has always given up between 4 and 4.5 runs per 9 innings. Haren was in the low to mid 3's until last year; he is a better pitcher than Lannan by every measure. Having said that I would be perfectly content with Lannan at no. 5 because we have 4 very good ones. Haren is attractive relative to other veterans because there is no long term commitment associated with him and he only serves as a bridge until the next batch of young hurlers graduate.

  98. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:27 PM

    a 3 year deal with an older pitcher is exactly what I don't want.

  99. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:29 PM

    JD, absolutely Haren has outshined Lannan in comparable careers but Haren fell out of sorts and the Angels want to dump him. You have to ask why a contender with a cashflow would want to dump him.

  100. SonnyG10 - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:30 PM

    I think I'd be ok with Lannan in the 5th spot also if it comes to that. We could do worse.

  101. Gonat - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:30 PM

    JD said… a 3 year deal with an older pitcher is exactly what I don't want. November 01, 2012 5:27 PM _______________________________Lohse has back to back great seasons. Kick the tires on him and see what you get.

  102. JD - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:44 PM

    Gonat, Lohse will command a huge deal based on these 2 years but he is 34 years old and his career before these last 2 years was very non descript. I just don't think he'l be a match with the Nats.

  103. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:48 PM

    I think John Lannan would deliver a massive number of innings and end up with the same RESULTS as EJax – he does not have the same "stuff", but he is an experienced pitcher and with the current Nats he would have the defense to support his ground balls. I think he could pitch the 2013 season and have the same win total as EJax if not more.I frankly do not care about the radar gun. Ask Barry Zito about the radar gun. Who cares if he strikes people out? Strike outs are fascist.

  104. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:50 PM

    Nyjer out-righted to the minors. Ouch. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

  105. Steady Eddie - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:57 PM

    with the current Nats he would have the defense to support his ground ballsswami, agree with this, but only if they resign LaRoche. I don't trust either Morse or Moore to pick all those bouncing throws from Zim and Desi that ALR did, and the pitchers will get thrown off if they don't have the confidence that both sides of the ground ball out transaction are covered by the best available. That's the golden piece that ALR offers, is the confidence he gives the pitchers to pitch to contact (and that goes for a lot more than Lannan).

  106. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 9:59 PM

    baseballswami, I must say I am smiling through Nyjers pain. He has gone from extremely cocky to extremely cranky.

  107. MicheleS - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:02 PM

    LMAOnyjer has been outrighted to the brewers Nashville affiliate!

  108. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:05 PM

    Steady Eddie – very true about the defense. ALR makes the entire infield look better. Although I think Zim's throwing will be much better next year and Desi and Danny are pretty accurate. Looking at the above listings – John Lannan has respectable numbers. In some ways he could fill a role kind of like Livo. Barry Zito didn't even hit 90 against the Tigers. Lannan knows the NL East hitters. Did you see his WAR? I just think heads get turned when they see that power fastball. If you can't locate it consistently then you are basically HRod. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to result in an out.

  109. Steady Eddie - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:05 PM

    Nyjer's shelf-life-exhaustion cycle with new teams is SO predictable.

  110. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:07 PM

    JD, if we are going to spend Lerners money, I'm spending mine on a 2 year deal with vesting option for Lohse. If I don't get him I would settle for Lannan who may surprise us as I really like what I saw last season. If Lannan doesn't make it you lost $7 million instead of $12 to $15 million, then make a trade on July 31st if you need a 4th playoff starter.

  111. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:08 PM

    And on another note – nice to see the Nats on twitter wishing DC United good luck. Caps, Nats and DC United doing the post season thing in 2012.

  112. hiramhover - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:08 PM

    The Angels are looking to solidify the top of their rotation by re-signing Greinke. Add him to Jared Weaver and CJ Wilson, and that's a strong trio for the long-term (well, a strong duo, anyway, but they're stuck with Wilson, and he's solid if not as strong as the other two). The Angels are not looking to spend $15M on Haren when they have some strong and cheap young guys contending to fill out the rotation.

  113. Steady Eddie - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:10 PM

    swami — I wasn't thinking particularly of Zim's bad throws — he was at his worst when he had the most time to set and throw, and his worst were mostly too wild for anyone to catch them — than of the fact that Zim, Desi, and Espi all have great range and ALR's pick-ability lets them make more marginal, off-balance throws at the edge of their range, and have to eat fewer of those plays for infield hits. Which in turn gives the pitchers confidence about what they can throw, with the sense that if anyone in the IF can get to it, it'll be an out.

  114. Ghost Of Steve M. - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:15 PM

    baseballswami at 6:05, you my man get it. Exactly spot on.

  115. baseballswami - Nov 1, 2012 at 10:18 PM

    Steady Eddie – totally agree. Not necessarily throws that would be errors if he didn't pick them. Definitely robbing the other team of hits because the defense can get to them, get them in the vicinity of first and ALR makes the out.Love the looks on hitters faces when they realize they are out and can't figure out how it happened!

  116. NatsLady - Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 PM

    Yes, I suggested Ankiel as a lefty reliever since we might be looking for one. See above @3:43.

  117. Gonat - Nov 2, 2012 at 1:09 AM

    Just as Brian Goodwin got Player Of The Week last week he goes 0 for his last 13 and his BA quickly drops to .268Rendon has a 1-3 with a walk and his BA keeps climbing to .275 and a .367 OBP

  118. Gonat - Nov 2, 2012 at 1:14 AM

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/01/giants-wont-make-qualifying-offer-to-their-free-agents-including-angel-pagan/The Giants won't give any of their Free Agents qualifying offers.Maybe Rizzo will grab Jeremy Affeldt as a lefty reliever.

  119. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 2, 2012 at 1:20 AM

    any minor leaguers we have that walk more than K?

  120. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 2, 2012 at 1:37 AM

    any ideas on what skill set of a hitter declines gracefully as he ages?

  121. baseballswami - Nov 2, 2012 at 1:42 AM

    Dan Plesac on MLB today said that he and his colleagues underestimated the National League. The athleticism, pitching and defense nullified the AL hitting. Some people are slow to see reality and change their minds away from stereotypes. It has taken three years. If any if you watched, I think it might have been NatsJack that said the Tigers looked like a slow pitch softball team. He was right. Right now, I think everyone currently on the Nats roster is a very good athlete. No more Matt Stairs types.

  122. blovy8 - Nov 2, 2012 at 3:02 AM

    You can't take much from a short series. Detroit's hitting was obviously flat, but if they improve their bullpen and find a way to keep a guy almost as good as Sanchez as a fourth starter, all they'd need is V-Mart to come back strong, and they could be better. But they probably should get a rangy guy like Brendan Ryan to play short because Cabrera is a statue at 3rd.The White Sox made a good deal to retain Peavy though, so they still will be pushed.

  123. peric - Nov 2, 2012 at 3:27 AM

    Yes, I suggested Ankiel as a lefty reliever since we might be looking for one. See above @3:43.Any excuse to get Ankiel and his glove back? Natslady thinks only defense must have really hated when it was time for her to hit … Rick Ankiel is beyond 30 now. He isn't going to re-metamorph himself into a relief pitcher Natslady. Best to just give that up. He really was not one of Riggleman's better ideas. Bringing they guy in to start in CF knocking out Morgan (clearly not a player Riggleman would be fond of). When they signed him Riggleman told Ankiel he would be the starter. There was no real competition and Morgan plus the rest of the team knew it. Riggleman and his Cardinal connections … as that was the organization he cut his teeth as a baseball coach in. Mr. Nepotism. Instead you keep going after Morse who has been one of the most productive hitters in the short-time he has been with the Nats if you glance at the leader board Mark produced.Where on that do you see Rick Ankiel's name Natslady? Where? He named a starter well before Morse. Morse was still a part-time player and he out produced Ankiel. Sheesh.

  124. peric - Nov 2, 2012 at 3:40 AM

    Lohse has back to back great seasons. Kick the tires on him and see what you get.Uhh they really could have did that last season right? There were guys like Randy Wolf for example … In the end despite all the posturing they went exactly where they wanted to go and that was to a young, talented left-hander that was team controllable and not that expensive. A guy that could grow with a very young roster.They are going to do the same thing this season. They aren't going for Haren. They aren't going for Lohse. Both are right-handed and one can be certain the Nats will want another lefty since the bullpen is currently bereft of them. And Davey likes to alternate when his starters come up short. And there's the NL East.Drew I think pegged it. They go after David Price. It makes an abundant amount of sense. A sub-30 perennial Cy Young award candidate with at least a couple more years of team control. And unlike RJax, and even Gio, he really could slide into that #1 slot and push Stras down to #2. And that is what they still need, given how inconsistent the pitching was in the playoffs and at the end of the year.

  125. Doug - Nov 2, 2012 at 4:03 AM

    peric – Good luck prying Price from the Rays…What possible trade could we make to get Price? Morse, Espi/Lombo and 2 top tier prospects? Well….now that I think of it thats not a bad trade at all…but can't see the Rays giving Price up for anything…he is their centerpiece, and still under team control.Either way, Gio and JZimm went through the postseason for the first time, you have to think they will be calmer next time out and pitch their normal game (which we all know is top tier).I highly doubt we go after Haren, but its hard to disagree that it makes a ton of sense to bring on a 1 year rental at $12M (very close to Edwin's salary last year) who has the upside of a top 10 MLB pitcher (and in his "injury shortened" season he still pitched 176 IP). This team is going to be able to take on a $100M+ payroll next year so why not try to put together what could be one of the greatest rotations ever?

  126. Section 222 - Nov 2, 2012 at 4:22 AM

    Ok, I have to comment. As great as this year was, we stil have a long way to go as a franchise. Austin Kearns is still in the top 10 for WAR. Austin __ -ing Kearns. (shakes head and walks away muttering.)

  127. Laddie Blah Blah - Nov 2, 2012 at 8:03 AM

    "Strike outs are fascist."Most original insight of the entire year. Wish I had thought of that one.

  128. JayB - Nov 2, 2012 at 10:32 AM

    222…I was thinking the same thing when I read that with a twist…Danny E and Austin have good WAR's…..WAR is not a good stat…..shakes head…walks away….WAR is not about winning games…if it were Danny would not have the WAR he had this year. Yes Danny has talent….should have been in AAA or bench after Ian came back…Should start on Bench this year or AAA until he proves he is coachable with his swing and approach….that will get his attention.

  129. natsfan1a - Nov 2, 2012 at 10:36 AM

    They're also boring. :-)Laddie Blah Blah said… "Strike outs are fascist." Most original insight of the entire year. Wish I had thought of that one. November 02, 2012 4:03 AM

  130. Gonat - Nov 2, 2012 at 10:45 AM

    Faraz Shaikh said… any ideas on what skill set of a hitter declines gracefully as he ages? November 01, 2012 9:37 PM ______________________________Uh, bat speed?

  131. Gonat - Nov 2, 2012 at 11:08 AM

    JayB said… 222…I was thinking the same thing when I read that with a twist…Danny E and Austin have good WAR's…..WAR is not a good stat…..shakes head…walks away….WAR is not about winning games…if it were Danny would not have the WAR he had this year. Yes Danny has talent….should have been in AAA or bench after Ian came back…Should start on Bench this year or AAA until he proves he is coachable with his swing and approach….that will get his attention. November 02, 2012 6:32 AM __________________________________WAR is a good stat but Espi's WAR is very unbalanced and propped up by his defense stats and lets face it, he's not a pitcher which makes the defensive WAR component sometimes overrated.

  132. Faraz Shaikh - Nov 2, 2012 at 11:26 AM

    Gonat, what statistics would represent it? do they actually time bat speeds?

  133. Gonat - Nov 2, 2012 at 11:30 AM

    Faraz Shaikh said… Gonat, what statistics would represent it? do they actually time bat speeds? November 02, 2012 7:26 AM ____________________________I actually don't know if there is a site that does.

  134. Scooter - Nov 2, 2012 at 4:09 PM

    I know everybody's gone, but maybe Mr. Z will see this: I was disappointed that runs weren't in this post. I'm sure it was simply an oversight.

  135. Bigfish - Nov 2, 2012 at 4:41 PM

    Re names on the lists: My all-time example of how really bad the Nats were back in the day — Jesus Colomé. He always reminded me of an old Tip O'Neill story I heard when I worked on the Hill. There was a notoriously fidgety congressman from Texas (whose name I forget). Tip's analysis: "He's the only guy I know who could wear out a suit from the inside out." That was Jesus Colomé.

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