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The impact of Werth’s return

Jun 3, 2013, 10:00 AM EDT

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ATLANTA — For the better part of a month now, the Nationals have been forced to talk about the impact they'd experience from the losses of several key players due to injury: Bryce Harper, Stephen Strasburg, Ross Detwiler, Wilson Ramos, Ryan Mattheus.

Well, for the first time in a month, they finally get to talk about the impact one of those players' return will have on the club's fortunes: Jayson Werth.

Having successfully completed a five-game rehab stint with Class A Potomac, Werth is scheduled to come off the disabled list Tuesday and be in the Nationals' lineup for their series opener against the Mets. And not a moment too soon for a club that could desperately use the veteran outfielder's contributions, especially at the plate after he went 9-for-17 with two homers on his rehab assignment.

"That'll be a shot in the arm," manager Davey Johnson said following yesterday's loss to the Braves. "He must've been reallyRead more »

159 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. MurrayTheRed - Jun 3, 2013 at 10:17 AM

    Every little bit helps. I'm of the belief that this will be the beginning of the big 180 for the Nationals!

  2. baseballswami - Jun 3, 2013 at 10:44 AM

    I almost think he will have more influence in the clubhouse than on the field. But let's not kid ourselves, he just played five games at single A ball. Not exactly a hotbed of great pitching. I am anxious to see if anything else at all changes. Abad and Davis could well be keepers. I am guessing the only change tomorrow will be Kobernus leaving. Would have liked to see him play a little – or at least have the manager learn to pronounce his name. I don't feel that things are going to magically turn around, but it will be good to have Jayson back. Betting the fans here will welcome him in a bad way since he has not been one of the offenders during this tough stretch.

  3. Gonat - Jun 3, 2013 at 10:47 AM

    Nice to start off a positive thread as most have been loaded in doom and gloom.Welcome back Jayson Werth!

  4. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jun 3, 2013 at 10:52 AM

    We just need to start a nice winning streak.

  5. Bob Saget Nats Fan 101 - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:01 AM

    Swami, why do you think Kobernus will get send down and not espi to dl or duke dfa?

  6. Gonat - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:01 AM

    EJax moved to 1-8 with another bad loss. 7 runs with 5 earned on 12 hits with 3 walks in only 5 2/3.What has happend to Edwin.

  7. Gonat - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:05 AM

    It's almost like who isn't on the hot seat when Werth is taken off the DL.Kobernus is the easy choice since they aren't using him then you have the under performers:1. Espi2. Tracy3. TyMo4. Henry5. DukeIt seems like a Pick 6

  8. baseballswami - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:11 AM

    Well, Kobernus has not really been a factor and it just looks like they are sticking with Espi no matter what. Seems like if they were not going to have Espi in the lineup they would have been giving Kobernus some looks at the positions he would be backup for with Lombo playing 2b every day. I don't see any other actions being taken. It 's just making the statement that the hitters are not doing what they are capable of- well , of course they aren't, but I would love to hear one media guy ask- well then what are YOU going to do about it? They all seem pretty careful with him, though. Does not seem that the manager thinks there is anything he can do except believe in them and wait. I don't think they need to blowup the team and start over, but I do think there are some things that have become untenable.

  9. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:14 AM

    I'm guessing, but I don't think Kobernus will get sent down. I think it's the end of the road for Duke now that Abad has shown he's reliable and the bullpen will be rested. Yes, that would mean back to only one lefty reliever, but Duke wasn't a match-up guy. You can't hide two ineffective relievers, that seems clear.

  10. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:21 AM

    Welcome back, Jayson! Aaooooo!He's the hairy-handed gent who ran amuck in KentLately he's been overheard in MayfairBetter stay away from himHe'll rip your lungs out, JimI'd like to meet his tailorAaoooooo!Werewolves of London!Aaoooooo!

  11. Gonat - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:25 AM

    The Nats currently are carrying a 4 man bench and an 8 man bullpen.Karns hasn't lasted 5 innings yet and has needed a long(er) man behind him which has been the 2 faces of Zach Duke.With the issues with Strasburg I'm not sure how Davey structures the front of the bullpen. I agree with NatsLady "You can't hide two ineffective relievers, that seems clear."

  12. ehay2k - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:28 AM

    Glad to see Werth coming back, taking the time to get healthy. Need his bat and game smarts. I am interested to see if he rakes right away. That would tell me that he benefitted from a different hitting instructor during his rehab. Eck stinks as bad as Espi. The Astros have a better team BA, SLG, and OPS. Must be the talent level. We have too many people batting under .175 – which will soon be known as the "Eck line."

  13. TimDz - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    He got a multi-million dollar guarenteed contract?

  14. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:33 AM

    Gonat, I think you have to take Tyler Moore off of your pick. Davey has an irrational teacher's pet thing going with both him, and Espinosa. I guess you could add Tracy to the pet's list. At least Danny gives you better then average defense.Kobernus, like Perez before him, has been given no opportunity to show what they can do. Both were here as "break glass in case of emergency" pieces. I haven't seen Kobernus play, but have been told that he is less than stellar at 2nd base, so they are trying to make him into an outfielder. I have seen Perez a few times and he moves beautifully in the outfield. NatsJack says we'd be surprised by his arm, though I haven't personally seen enough of him to say.

  15. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:34 AM

    "people batting under .175 – which will soon be known as the "Eck line.""Not sure if that is funny or sad. Is it teacher or student.When Laroche went to Chipper Jones to get straightened out it told me the problem is the teacher.Eck sounds like a great guy. Hard worker. Is George Brett available.

  16. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:36 AM

    ehay2k, do you really think Jayson Werth worked with the P-Nats batting instructor?

  17. Gonat - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM

    Joe Seamhead said… Gonat, I think you have to take Tyler Moore off of your pick. Davey has an irrational teacher's pet thing going with both him, and Espinosa. I guess you could add Tracy to the pet's list. At least Danny gives you better then average defense________________________________Joe, I was just listing the 5 supreme under-performers. I'm still hoping that Rizzo does his job much like Billy Beane did in Moneyball. Get rid of the player so the Manager can't play his favorites.

  18. baseballswami - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:46 AM

    I have watched baseball for an insanely long time. Our organization just does not do things other organizations do. Sometimes that is very cool, I love the outside the box stuff. But watching now, the damaged player, physically and mentally, just being run out there game after game to fail and fail is confusing. No matter how good a pitching or hitting coach has been, a change is usually called for , just to get a fresh look , a new voice. Randy St. Clair worked wonders with the scrap he had, but a change was made. Now- do you wish that change undone? No, We all seem to think McCatty is the best guy. There is just so much inertia here. It sometimes seems like paralysis.

  19. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:47 AM

    "NatsLady said… Duke wasn't a match-up guy. You can't hide two ineffective relievers, that seems clear."Looks like you are naming Duke as 1 of the ineffective relievers. Who is the other one.

  20. ehay2k - Jun 3, 2013 at 11:50 AM

    Seamhead, I cannot say. But I know he took batting practice, and not from a guy throwing 45 feet away. Like I said, if time away means he rakes, then it is one more dot to connect. As Nats 128 pointed out, Eck was unable to help ALR, but Chipper was. Another dot.

  21. ehay2k - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:01 PM

    Nats 128 – I believe HRod is the other ineffective reliever. As for Duke, he was a starter, so maybe he hasn't adjusted to his bullpen role yet? When he has a feel for his pitches, he seems decent. When he doesn't , he is awful. Ample warm-up and a consistent number of rest days between starts could have something to do with it.

  22. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:02 PM

    ehay2k, Davey has always doubled as the batting coach behind Eck. Part of it has to be on Rizzo with Espy and Tracy. They are problems and will only hit when they get time away.Tyler Moore just never got going this year and needs regular at bats and get going.Bernadina was probably severely injured from that wrist injury in WBC and never mentioned it.

  23. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:14 PM

    "ehay2k said… Nats 128 – I believe HRod is the other ineffective reliever."That would be my guess however she didnt name the other one.I can see why since she has marveled about HRod for over 2 seasons.HRod is the same player he was when he arrived here much like Espinosa.While Rizzo has made some good moves the poor moves has turned that Executive of the Year trophy upside down.Same saying, You are never as bad as you are when you are losing and never as good as you are when you are winning.

  24. SCNatsFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:30 PM

    HRod is fine as long as we are behind when we put him in.As I said yesterday, if he throws another pitch for this team then the entire management team should be ashamed.

  25. BigCat - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:31 PM

    Wow, some other people saying that Eck has to go. I've got to call Manassas. He teaches during the day, but I'll send him a text. .175 = "The Eck Line"Eck quote of the day "Its a round bat and a round ball. Hit is square boys!"

  26. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:31 PM

    The walks have been a huge problem. However, they have gotten squeezed on a number of ball and strike calls recently. That hasn't helped either.The first one that comes to mind is the 3-2 called third strike to Span in the second inning yesterday that would have kept the rally going when they had Maholm on the ropes. PitchFX shows it at least six inches off the plate. Strike one was equally far off the plate. You can't fault Span for that- he made the right decision and took an obvious ball four, and the ump screwed him. Espinosa also got pinched on a called third strike with a full count at some point. That's two strikeouts that should have been walks. When it rains it pours I guess.

  27. natsfan1a - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:32 PM

    Were you using a different moniker during those seasons, because I don't recall seeing yours here until recently. Just curious.Nats 128 said… I can see why since she has marveled about HRod for over 2 seasons.

  28. Nats106 - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:36 PM

    Nats will go at least 22-16 from now to the All Star break. Tcostant, you know I'm right.

  29. Jimmy - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:37 PM

    Danny's collapse has been frustrating to watch, but I cant fault Davey and Rizzo for sticking with him, even this long. You're looking at a switch hitter, a middle infielder that has shown he can hit for serious power and can play well above average defense at both SS and 2d. The latent potential in this 26 year old is off the charts. Many seem to have forgotten that he has actually shown these abilities on the field in the majors and not just on paper or in the minors. Obviously he's lost his way – there's no arguing that – and it's been a while since we've seen any of that potential at the plate. I'm not going to throw Davey and Rizzo under the bus for sticking with him. Demoting a player to the minors can be helpful, but it is not without its risks as well. I don't doubt for a second that what Danny is going through is largely mental. Being sent down could totally break the kid. That's what they are worried about. That's why he's still here (that and a lack of a replacement with a bigger upside). It's not because Davey is too stubborn, plays favorites or some other conspiracy theory. Danny has a hugely high ceiling and a send down might extinguish that possibility for good. The call seems easy from the comment board, less so from the club house.

  30. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:48 PM

    Gee, I'm really sorry for having an opinion about a player who hasn't worked out (or isn't working out). No one else here EVER does that. ;)Yes, I thought (still think) that Henry and Espinosa are very talented. Whether that talent can develop remains to be seen in both cases, but it's very interesting to watch them both. I love me some Adam LaRoche, but you know, sooner or later, he's going to be Adam LaRoche. You don't know what Danny or Henry are going to turn out, that's what makes it fun, the element of risk, surprise, whatever you want to call it. The only player I have any sentimental attachment to is Clip, because he's probably the smartest pitcher on the team (and I like smart people). He doesn't have the best raw stuff, so it's interesting to see how he manages.Seriously, what I see from a lot of–but certainly not all–posters is a need for instant gratification. We don't win, we're not 35-20, so Rizzo must go, Davey must go, along with Espinosa, Henry, and every player who hasn't pitched a shutout or hit three home runs THAT VERY DAY. Tough it out, it's a long season. If you can't take a .500 team, leave. Really, I am sick of the whining. I'm sorry you're not having fun but I am. It's summer and it's baseball season.I'm sorry you feel entitled to a World Series–I don't, never did. You would have thought Game 5 taught you something about counting chickens, but apparently not.The boys are trying hard, I don't see a slacker in the bunch. They (and Davey and Rizzo) want to win as much–if not more–than we do.

  31. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:53 PM

    Also, I'm a little worried about Bryce. I'm not a psychologist, but he went from "I can play through pain, I will be good for the rest of the season and deal with it in the winter," to "I should have gone on the DL a month ago" to "I may not be ready to come back when the 15 days are up."I'm all for him being more realistic about the impact (yes, I did that) of his injuries, but I hope he's not giving in to them.

  32. blovy8 - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:57 PM

    It is interesting that so much of the time a player struggles an undisclosed or disregarded injury is involved.

  33. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 12:59 PM

    Well put, NatsLady. I agree with every word.

  34. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:02 PM

    Finally, every day I look at the stats, and every week I collect them all up into a review post. There is no hiding from what's going on with this team when you do that. No personalities, no "what ifs," no teacher's pets, just results. Last year, when we played the Astros, they played us tough, especially in their house, but they lost the games. I spoke (online) to a Stros fan and mentioned how tough they played, and that with a few breaks, they could have won. He said, "Yes, but the good teams find ways to win those games"We will be a good team when we find ways to win despite all the obstacles.

  35. Whack-a-Mule - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:03 PM

    Mule notes:1) If Duke has usefulness, it is as a Left-Handed Hitter specialist; not, repeat not a reliable general middle-reliever (left-handed or not) So perhaps there is a limited role for him; otherwise > Outright Release2) Henry Rodriguez is not a Major League pitcher. While he might possibly benefit from 1-2 years of minor league experience, this cannot happen with the Nats – he is out of options. The Nats cannot use him in game situations – he cannot be relied upon. If we are serious about contention, we cannot afford "passengers" > D.F.A. (= lose to another club).Mule will consider the Bench and Position Players at a later date.

  36. natsfan1a - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:03 PM

    Seconded.bowdenball said… Well put, NatsLady. I agree with every word. June 03, 2013 8:59 AM

  37. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:05 PM

    bloy8, I agree. There is a lot we don't know. Players are hurt, have the flu, allergies, family issues–all that stuff that prevents normal people from being at their best every single day. Hopefully, they are tough and pick each other up as teammates.

  38. RaleighNat - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:05 PM

    I really like Espinosa and am not ready to give up on him. But for his own sake, he needs to be sent down to get his head straight and regroup. I think its a disservice to him to keep trotting him out there when he is totally lost. No shame in going down for a while to take the pressure off.Duke must go. HRod is probably fine to eat innings when we're behind.Given the alternatives, Stammen is the 6th starter. I don't know how that isn't obvious given the alternatives.As depressing as it seems right now, TyMo and Shark platooning in left appears to be the best option.Other than that, I don't know what else to do but fight through it. The guys need to play better and there are no magic bullets until Harper, Stras, and Det are healthy and Rendon demonstrates he can handle second. Werth will help but is no savior.

  39. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:17 PM

    RaleighNat, excellent, and I agree with your assessment. That's why I don't see major changes unless Rizzo has a deal cooking with some team that has given up the ghost and is willing to let us eat salary. It's early for that, but I'm sure he's looking around. When I did the assessment of Rizzo's winter moves, I thought he might have dropped the ball and should have maybe gone for Lohse instead of Haren. However, here is the comparison Lohse/Lannan/Ejax/Haren. Lannan would have been the cheapest, of course, but he's spent most of the seaons on the DL so far. GIven that Lohse would have cost at least as much as Haren plus a draft pick, hard to fault Rizzo on this. Lohse/Haren/Jackson/Lannanhttp://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=0&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=1757%2c1841%2c7080%2c739

  40. waddu eye no - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:19 PM

    tell 'em, lady

  41. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:21 PM

    Then we come to Morse/Span/LaRoche and company. Bourn looks like the best choice, right now, but bear in mind he was expensive and got a long-term deal. If Rizzo was not going to go for Bourn, then he made the right choice Span/LaRoche over Morse. That was my opinion at the time, and so far, the stats are bearing me out (and RIzzo). Morse is injured, we will see if he is back in the lineup this week.Morse/Span/LaRoche/Revere/Bournhttp://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=np&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=c%2c4%2c6%2c7%2c11%2c12%2c13%2c21%2c-1%2c34%2c35%2c40%2c41%2c-1%2c23%2c37%2c38%2c50%2c61%2c-1%2c54%2c111%2c58&season=2013&month=0&season1=2013&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=1904%2c3035%2c8347%2c4712%2c6387

  42. SCNatsFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:23 PM

    I just cannot believe some on his board continue to support Danny and think if we just give him a little longer he'll snap out of it. Realistically for 2 yers now – 2 years – the kid has been overmatched at the plate and the league has figured him out; the only one who doesn't seem to realize this is Davey.I'm sure Danny is a nice kid and he's trying 100% and he has a great glove but at what point do you realize this is what he is at the plate. If you are worried about his head sending him down then he's a lost cause; it isn't like he is hitting .300 and is sent down because we traded for someone else, he's sent down because he has to learn how to hit again. If he and HRod are so mentally fragile that they collapse at the mere hint of pressure then how do you think they will do if we ever get back to the post season?If we were the Astros I'd say play them both every day and see what happens but we are not the Astros. Continue to play the stiffs we have and hope for change and we'll be the Astros soon enough. And, as for ruining players, think how it is ruining the pitching staff throwing good game after good game and watching the offense tank. Think how it ruins Lombo and Kobernus playing their butts off to see Danny trotted out night after night, results be damned. Think how it ruins a player like Davis seeing HRod get the call and throwing up all over himself. Think what is says to the players who are trying their best to make it to the majors and seeing once our guys get 'tenure' that there is no penalty for underperforming. I'm not one who calls for change just for changes sake but I'm amazed how far this team fell so fast.

  43. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:25 PM

    So, to date, I'm not seeing how Rizzo "blew it" in the winter. Those were the major deals he made, Haren, Span, LaRoche, Soriano, Morse. Oh, right, Soriano. He may not be Grilli, but he's doing quite nicely, thankyou, and he takes the pressure off Clip and Storen.

  44. MrsB loves the Nats - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:27 PM

    I cant wait for Werth to come back… Lord knows the team needs him, not only on the field, but in the dug out too…Re Espi – Everyone likes Espi's D but no one likes his inconsistency on the O… The man leads the league in SO and it doesnt look like he is (maybe ever has) known how to 'see pitches'… Yes, Espi has a lot of potential but if he doesnt bring it on the field, then he will always be an okay baseball player with way more potential…I woke up this morning hoping that I saw that HRod and Duke were DFA'd… I guess I didnt get my wish.Morning folks…

  45. Unknown - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:29 PM

    Ms. Nats speaks the truth. How many days at .500 have Washington baseball teams ever been. Since 1900 or so.Odds are that would be less than 20% of the time. Maybe much less. This is not as fun as last year, but at least we have a team that has a chance to win, and might turn it around, because they have real talent.

  46. MrsB loves the Nats - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:31 PM

    NL – Rizzo did blow it in not keeping at least 2 of the lefties that left in the BP… Im not sure how or why they thought that HRod would actually be better this year… Same with Duke…That is one of the things that made our BP so unique/good was that we had those lefties..I am glad that Morse is gone. Think and thought he was expendable… Plus Moore is a clone of him but he needs to go to the farm too and learn some more…

  47. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:33 PM

    SCNats, the point on Danny is that we don't KNOW what his problem is, and I'm not sure Davey/Eckstein/Rizzo know either. Since we don't know the problem, we don't know if sending him down would solve it. Sitting him for a few games didn't solve it.If his injuries are preventing him from hitting .240, then sending him down is not going to solve the problem. If he sending him down would help him retrieve some sort of hitting eye, then I'm for it, but remember you are depriving your team of a great glove and a backup SS. If Kobernus and Lombo are sulking because Danny is getting their playing time, I am without sympathy.Davis isn't "ruined" by Henry blowing a game. Davis is happy as all get-out to be here. If he's as good as he seemed, he'll get plenty of use. Remember, Henry was plenty great last year (PFB and all that.). Best not to anoint Davis based on one appearance.

  48. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:36 PM

    MrsB–Gonzalez, ineffective (REALLY ineffective) in Milwaukee. Gorzelanny is on the DL (and Duke was supposed to be Gorzy). Burnett has been on the DL most of the season. Rizzo was right not to keep Gonzalez or Burnett. Now, maybe he should have gotten Howell, but he took his chance that Abad or one of the other minor-league deals would turn into Gonzalez. So far so good on that.

  49. baseballswami - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:38 PM

    I for one do not think Danny's problems are all physical. No idea of the strike zone, refusal to listen and make adjustments. Tired of hearing about his range and arm. Lots of guys with range, arm not needed do much at second. Can't make it in the majors with just those tools. Speed does not count if you are never on base. He is a great kid and this is not fair to him or the team. And we cannot continue with two starters down and two ineffective relievers. If you have all your starters and they are going deep into games you can. I see a failure to accept the situation as it exists today and make adjystments.

  50. baseballswami - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:42 PM

    And I have never, ever seen Lombo sulk or heard a word that he has. He is the one player on this team that has done whatever is sked of him. He has moved defensive position, spot on the line up, and is always prepared. Best attitude on the team.

  51. MrsB loves the Nats - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:43 PM

    Who is to say that Burnett or Gorzo would be hurt if they stayed with the team… I thought those were both wrong moves by Rizzo to not keep those 2… Gonzalez, i didnt really care about…And Gorzo on his worst day is better than Duke… He reminds me of Wang so much, it hurts…

  52. SCNatsFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:44 PM

    But NatsLady after 2 years of flailing at the plate who cares what the problem is? He isn't getting the job done. Trying to fix it in the majors is both cruel to Danny and unfair to his teammates. If its injuries then he has been injured for 2 years! And I'm tired of the backup SS issue. Desi will play 160 games. If he gets hurt revisit the issue but keeping him for the backup SS is like keeping a big net on the bench in case a lion runs out onto the field; it is never going to be used. And you are right, Davis is happy to be here. Its the rest of the team that gets disgusted when HROd comes in and essentially gives the game away.I applaud you supporting these players but they are costing the team games. It is all about winning and you can't say either of these guys helps us win right now.

  53. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:46 PM

    Mrs. B, I would like Moore to be sent down also, but I don't know if Davey will do it. He seems to be letting Moore learn on the job. With Duke, yes, I would agree, Rizzo replacing Gorzelanny (who WAS effective for Milwaukee before he went on the DL) has not worked out. Gorzy could be relied on to give up a run, but Duke gives up three or four. If I were Rizzo I would cut my losses on Duke at this point, but–I'm not. Someone has to go to make room for Werth, so we'll know by tomorrow.

  54. MrsB loves the Nats - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:47 PM

    Espi needs to get the surgeries to fix any and all his issues… Then he needs to go to the farm and work on somethings…he isnt a contributor on the offense and with so many automatic outs in the line up right now, its not fair to him or the organization…Danny had a lot of potential but right now, that is all he is, a baseball player with a lot of potential…

  55. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:48 PM

    Burnett had a long injury history, and Rizzo didn't want to take the chance. I agree on Gorzy/Duke, in retrospect, but Rizzo didn't want to give a multi-year deal. In theory, there are no bad one-year deals, and that makes it relatively easy to cut Duke.

  56. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:53 PM

    Drew Storen cost more games than Henry when he went through that bad patch (hopefully over now). Does the team hate when a late-inning reliever blows games? Of course they do, but they can look right back at themselves to ask why we scored 7 runs in four games. And it isn't all Danny.

  57. Tcostant - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:53 PM

    It Davey is waiting for the team to be “right” before he shaves again, soon he’ll look like Werth, except it will be all grey.

  58. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:55 PM

    Tcostant–that would be SO funny!! You don't think Davey would at least trim it a little?

  59. SCNatsFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:56 PM

    NatsLady I respect but disagree with your right to stand behind Danny. Just try to remember the last time he won a game for us. Don't hurt yourself trying to remember.

  60. rmoore446 - Jun 3, 2013 at 1:59 PM

    So happy to see Werth return. He'll be giving us another professional at bat up near the top of the order. I'm weary of five ball at bats with a called strike three. I'm also encouraged by the debut of Davis and the continued good work by Abad. We've really missed Mattheus in recent games.

  61. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:01 PM

    SCN, I think "standing behind" Danny is a little strong. I believe he has talent; I also agree that he is costing the team, and as soon as Rendon can demonstrate he's ok at 2B, Danny will be sent for the surgery or sent to AA or whatever, and they will probably bring up Zach Walter to back up SS if they don't think Kobernus can handle it. Just going to have to live with Danny for a while, so have fun complaining.

  62. JD - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    NatsLady, Good for you excellent comments all around. I am sick and tired of people saying things like: 'issues weren't addressed in the off season'. We won 98 games last year (best in the majors), added a leadoff man (consensus biggest need ), added a closer, replaced a 5th starter with a very competent experienced veteran (who has pitched better this year than Ejax did last year) and issues weren't addressed? Excuse me but you try to maneuver through a brutal early schedule without your best player, your veteran leader and 1 starter down and another soon to follow.

  63. Theophilus T. S. - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:09 PM

    I find Desmond's enthusiasm for Werth ironic. As I said over the weekend, referring to Desmond standing like a house by the side of the road (Ernie Harwell) while strike three whizzed by, Desmond has failed to learn from Werth how to foul off a pitch he doesn't like but can't afford to let go by. Nobody major leaguer should rely on an umpire to bail him out. Werth can give you an eight- or nine-pitch AB until he gets a walk or something he thinks he can handle. Desmond lacks patience/discipline/maturity as a hitter. Not my idea of a leader.

  64. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:10 PM

    I think last year was so much fun because we didn't have expectations–even after the 14-4 start not many drank the Kook-Aid because we knew that could be a fluke. It was a journey of discovery, of fighting outsiders on the Stras shutdown, of seeing our team on national TV. This year is a grind,

  65. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:10 PM

    "PitchFX shows it at least six inches off the plate."I was only following on AtBat yesterday, and this happened an absurd number of times. As I recall, it was always the outside corner for a left/inside corner for a righty that was exceptionally generous to the pitcher. Mostly it happened with lefties at the plate, but happened with righties, too. It did seem as though the Nats adjusted to it. I seem to recall a number of swings on balls off that side of the plate later in the game.I feel like this has been a recurring problem all season…

  66. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:10 PM

    Mrs. B, Danny led the league in K's last year, but doesn't even lead the Nats in K's right now. He's third, behind ALR and Desmond.As to Tyler Moore being a clone of Michael Morse, I find that somewhat laughable. What they have in common is that they are both big and slow footed. Morse has never struck out at over a 30% ratio, [except in 2008 when he only had 11 at bats]. Morse actually has a very good glove when he gets to the ball, and has a decent arm. Moore has neither. Morse has hit .291 for his career. Saying that Tyler is his clone is pretty unfair to Michael Morse! I actually liked Morse a lot, but understood the decision to trade him when we did. Hated to see him go, but personally I turned that page a long time ago. I wouldn't mind it if Rizzo took him on as rental if Seattle wants to do a salary dump at the trade deadline.I loved Sean Burnette for what he gave us, but he had 2 strikes against him, first being the dollars, and second being his elbow was sore most of last year. I think that he was damaged goods and Rizzo knew it.

  67. Exposremains - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM

    I would swap Stammen and Karns roles. Release Duke for Werth. When all starters are healthy, keep Karns and get rid of Hrod. If a minor league pitcher can do a better job than Hrod get rid of him now. Make a trade for a real experienced RH bench player. Moore down, brown up. As soon as Rendon is ready, Espi to DL. Right now, Lombo at 2nd and Brown in left. When Harper healthy, whomever performed better between Bernadina and Brown gets to stay.

  68. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:13 PM

    Oh, and there were also a number of Karns' pitches that were perfectly placed at the edge of the zone that were called a ball.Regarding pitches off the third base side of the plate, there was one at bat for Span where the 1 – 0 pitch was called a strike and was 6" off the plate. The 1 – 1 pitch was called a ball and was exactly as far off the plate, only it was a couple inches lower.It has to be really frustrating to bat through that kind of thing.

  69. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:13 PM

    JD (sigh), I know. The problems are not what Rizzo did or did not do in the off-season. The problems are now.

  70. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:13 PM

    There seems to be a lot of people living in denial here and making up excuses.Danny Espinosa probably is plagued by injuries which would explain his drop point below his career averages but you still have to look at those career averages (.230/.303/.396/.698) just aren't very good.He is a classic example of something you either have or you don't and that is excellent hand/eye coordination issues. You overcome that with good mechanics. You put both of those issues together with some injuries and you have the mess that is Danny Espinosa 2013.Here's 2 more stats, Danny has had the worst swing & miss percentages in the Majors over his career span and since the beginning of 2012 has owned the worst K rate, BB/K, and K/HR percentages.Again, the Majors isn't the place to learn how to hit. It's a major fail and should have been seen as early as May 2011. I didn't start writing about him until June 2011 as I thought it was just a slump.You can stay in denial or come to grips that until Danny gets sound mechanics he will just continue to be a below average offensive player.

  71. JamesFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:14 PM

    This should be considered a penant race this year, not a development year. When players aren't hacking it, something needs to be done. At the 1/3 season point, these sub .200 hitters should be benched or sent down and we should be looking at young talent eager for an opportunity. Likewise, Duke needs to be cut loose in favor of others. Tyler's innings should be reduced as well. The Braves do not look very tough to me. They are catchable, but the Nats cannot do it with this kind of loser mentality that characterizes the team right now. Where's the toughness? It should start at the top.Getting Werth back helps phychologically.

  72. natsfan1a - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:15 PM

    Yes, but I said it first. (Kidding, but I do agree with and have made the point myself. :-))NatsLady said… I think last year was so much fun because we didn't have expectations–even after the 14-4 start not many drank the Kook-Aid because we knew that could be a fluke. It was a journey of discovery, of fighting outsiders on the Stras shutdown, of seeing our team on national TV. This year is a grind, June 03, 2013 10:10 AM

  73. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:20 PM

    "Seriously, what I see from a lot of–but certainly not all–posters is a need for instant gratification."Ding ding ding!"I'm all for [Harper] being more realistic about the impact (yes, I did that) of his injuries, but I hope he's not giving in to them."I'm worried about him specifically because he *didn't* give in to his injuries. That he is now gives me hope that he truly will wait until he's healed to come back. It's worth noting that he said if it were September or October, he'd still be going out there.

  74. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:22 PM

    "From JD – I am sick and tired of people saying things like: 'issues weren't addressed in the off season'."Guess what, some of us are sick and tired of you saying things like you know it all and are THE authority.Rizzo addressed plenty of holes and failed on others and that is the fair assessment. He brought Henry in again for another season and brought Espy in as his primary 2nd baseman even after he knew of the shoulder injury and lets face it Espy wasnt good before the shoulder injury. Lastly he put Tracy in as his primary big lefty bat and this is a player that went 4 1/2 months last season without a HR.Those are 3 major fails and that doesnt include a true lefty reliever for Opening Day or the lack of a #6 starter if needed although Karns has done an admirable job he still hasnt finished a 5th inning.

  75. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:22 PM

    It's simply NOT TRUE that Danny never hit. In the second half of 2012 over 318 PAs (not a small sample), Danny hit .264/.321/.432 with 10 HRs. I don't know what the problem is, but saying he could never hit is just wrong.Nats 2nd half of 2012http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2012&month=31&season1=2012&ind=0&team=24&rost=&age=0&filter=&players=

  76. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:26 PM

    Ghost, I'm not quite as hard on Danny as you are, but at the very least I think Lombo has beat out the 2013 Espinosa, all things considered. If Danny is hurt, and he is the way his hands looked yesterday at the plate, then at least put him on the 15 day DL.I'm not saying that is all he needs, either. I think Danny Espinosa is a very potential laden, but is bull headed, and bordering on un-coachable with the bat. Guys like him can make a hitting coach look even worse than he might be!And JD @ 10:07, great post. Add in the guy that was supposed to be your starting catcher.And Ryan Mattheus? I hope that you have a Rube Goldberg self-kicking machine and are using it to kick yourself in the butt with it every day. You, I am angry with.

  77. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:28 PM

    JS–obviously Mattheus was a Rizzo fail because Rizzo did not take into consideration Mattheus' frail psyche. /s

  78. sjm308 - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:29 PM

    Excellent comments and information this morning. I had always thought that Rizzo did a good job this off season, making some very tough decisions. Natslady sort of proves (with hindsight and injury information) that most of his moves were the right ones. We at times send 3 or 4 guys to the plate hitting under .200. That just can't help.I am not rushing to judgement here or screaming for people to lose jobs but Danny needs to get his injuries fixed. When Rendon comes up you now have your backup shortstop and if he has to play a day or two there, Lombo can certainly take over 2nd base. Until Rendon is ready you can use Lombo and Kobernus and they can't do any worse than what Danny has done so far this year.I still am pushing for Karns to stay up as our long reliever when all of the 5 starters are healthy. Dukes and Henry just do not bring a lot of confidence to this old fan. Would love to see us slowly but surely start to turn this around. Go Nats!!

  79. JD - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:29 PM

    Ghost, I disagree with you on Espinosa almost 100%. I will take the Espi of last year any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I don't care how often he strikes out if at the end of the day he hits 17 home runs, knocks in 56 runs, scores 82 runs, steals 20 bases and saves runs left, right and center. Clearly, Danny is not playing at that level this year (defense is still sublime) and given that something has to get done, whether it's DL or the minors. Hence the move of Rendon to 2nd which you so gleefully pat yourself on the shoulder for. I think it's foolish to dismiss the fact that the young man who is a top notch prospect has had 3 traumatic ankle injuries which cost him close to 2 full playing years and I think Rizzo correctly resisted that move for as long as he could but in the end necessity is the mother of invention so he's taking that risk (and losing sleep over it I bet).

  80. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:30 PM

    The first game that I saw Danny Espinosa in at Nats Park he hit 2 home runs, one from each side. Sometimes I think that may have been the worse thing that could have happened to him, as he may have figured that he owned ML pitching.

  81. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:32 PM

    OK, NatsLady has given me the chuckle of the day with her 10:28 post!

  82. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:34 PM

    "NatsLady said… JD (sigh), I know. The problems are not what Rizzo did or did not do in the off-season. The problems are now."Keep telling yourself that. Rizzos reluctance to make changes into the season has been an issue since he took over and the fanbase deserves better. Keeping detrimental players around like Stares and Lidge and Henry and Espy and Duke and Tracy are part of the culture with him and thats a problem.Adam Laroche basically said so with out naming names. Adam struggles and turns to the arch enemy teams exstar player for help. Thats pathetic on the Nats and happy that it worked.I believe that if Rizzo made the tough decisions putting the postseason roster together and had properly found a stud acquisition on July 31st for Strasburg instead of relying on that inconsistent overpay known as Ejax and left Danny boy (1 for 15) off the postseason roster the Nats cruise and win it all.This needs repeating from a previous poster that the Giants lost there best hitter in Melky and benched there 2nd baseman and brought in Scutaro and sent Lincecum to the bullpen and Zito to be a starter and they won. Imagine that.

  83. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:36 PM

    Nats 128 said…"Guess what, some of us are sick and tired of you saying things like you know it all and are THE authority."Looks like you forgot the irony mark…

  84. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:37 PM

    So Rizzo should have made massive changes to a team that won 98 games and almost won the NLDS without Strasburg, BUT if was fine for the Giants NOT to make changes to their roster? BTW, the Giants are 30-27 and in 3rd place in their division. Take a wander over if you want to see a team with problems.

  85. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:39 PM

    I also disagree with GoSM on Espinosa. His analysis totally ignores that Espinosa is a second baseman who plays good defense. His career numbers are perfectly fine for such a player, maybe even above average.GoSM is right that he'll probably always be a below average offensive player, but he has been an above average offensive second baseman before, and I think he can be again if he takes the rest of the year off to rest and recover. And how he ranks among 2Bs is what counts, not how he ranks against corner outfielders.

  86. NatsJack in Florida - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:40 PM

    I had a hunch Mattheus had a frail psyche when I cleary heard two "F" bombs in my living room in Winter Park, Fl. all the way from the pitchers mound in Petco Park on that fatefull Sunday he decided to beat up a locker.

  87. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:41 PM

    I'm sorry? The Nats should have traded Strasburg on July 31 of last year? OK, then.I believe that if Rizzo …had properly found a stud acquisition on July 31st for Strasburg…

  88. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:42 PM

    After ALR got advice from Chipper he shortened his swing temporarily and started being content with hitting the ball to the opposite field for singles. In his interview yesterday he said ," you can't just start swinging harder, or start throwing harder, baseball doesn't work like that." My guess is that Jones just basically got him to lighten up and go to left. Seriously, how many balls did ALR hit to the left of 2nd base last year? I don't know how to look that up in advanced metrics, but I'll bet he has more hits to left already this year then he did all of last year. Sometimes the end of a slump comes from something as simple as to stop trying to pull every pitch.

  89. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:48 PM

    Nats128 at 10;22 is spot on. I would have added not keeping Lannan as another gaffe. I know the Davey and Rizzo defenders in here (who now make me sick) will state the usual BS about monies and contracts and crap as an excuse.I am going to be nice….Every thing injury wise for Nats this season has gone wrong as opposed to last season where everything broke right. Harper comes up in 2012 at about the same time Werth was hurt. Lannan was superb when needed, etc… I know things like this happen to ball clubs…but here is the thing, if the Nats bounce back in 2014, this crap ass season is acceptable. If they do not, Rizzo and davey will go down as Stooge #1 in DC sports history

  90. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:49 PM

    Nats 128 said…"I believe that if Rizzo made the tough decisions putting the postseason roster together and had properly found a stud acquisition on July 31st for Strasburg instead of relying on that inconsistent overpay known as Ejax and left Danny boy (1 for 15) off the postseason roster the Nats cruise and win it all."The Nationals lost Edwin Jackson's playoff start 8-0. What "stud acquisition" available at the trading deadline could have held the Cardinals to -1 runs in Game 3? Or maybe this mystery pitcher would have also hit a HR in addition, to shutting out a lineup that posted 23 runs in the other 4 games of the series?Come on, folks. Game 5 was a hard pill to swallow, but the Cardinals beat the pants off the Nationals that series. We won two one-run games before Game 5, they won two eight-run games. We were extraordinarily fortunate to even get to Game 5 given the circumstances. A slight pitching upgrade and inserting a guy with a career OPS of .654 at second base wouldn't have changed anything.

  91. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:51 PM

    Sorry I was looking at Lombo's dad. Lombardozzi Jr. actually has a career OPS of .630.

  92. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:55 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  93. JD - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:58 PM

    mick, You are right. Everyone sucks including the ushers and the hot dog and beer vendors. It's a miracle they ever win a game. I think they got to 98 last year using some form of black magic.

  94. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:58 PM

    why has not anyone mention the fact 2 pitchers on the same team a have oblique issues.. not only does our GM and manager have issues, but do are trainers, McCatty and conditioning coaches suck too?

  95. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 3, 2013 at 2:59 PM

    JD said… Ghost,I disagree with you on Espinosa almost 100%. I will take the Espi of last year any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I don't care how often he strikes out if at the end of the day he hits 17 home runs, knocks in 56 runs, scores 82 runs, steals 20 bases and saves runs left, right and center.Well thanks for disagreeing with me almost 100%. It's always nice that someone can find almost 100% wrong with your comments.If you are OK with (.230/.303/.396/.698) I don't know what to tell you JD.This is the stat from last year of Danny's that stood out where he was awful. He struck out 79 times with men on base which is a failure to at least advance baserunners. Man on 3rd base with less than 2 outs and he slashed .208/.222/.208/.431 with 11 K's of 27 PAs. The exact scenario that the Nats had in the 9th inning on Saturday night that people fried Ian Desmond for.

  96. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:00 PM

    JD…. great answer pal28-29 is reality 2 pitchers with the same injuries are also reality.. you defenders of Rizzo and davey just are amazing people

  97. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:02 PM

    "You are right. Everyone sucks including the ushers and the hot dog and beer vendors. It's a miracle they ever win a game. "The only people on this team who don't suck are the fans that know who *does* suck at any given time.

  98. NatsJack in Florida - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:02 PM

    Mick…..Stras has a lat issue, not an oblique issue.

  99. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:03 PM

    Folks, we seem to have lost the worst offender for the personal insults. Can we disagree regarding our feelings about players and management like adults?

  100. MrsB loves the Nats - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:03 PM

    Damn meetings… Sorry… Okay, kinda caught up… good discussions all around…But this team needs a win… as we know winning cures all.. Once we get back to everyone being healthy or relatively healthy, then we will go on a role..I think we 17 – 10 this month… If we do that, we are heading in the right direction…Im anxious to see who gets the boot when Werth returns. I will certainly be disappointed if it is Kobernus…

  101. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:04 PM

    Ghost Of Steve M. said…"If you are OK with (.230/.303/.396/.698) I don't know what to tell you JD."You can star by explaining why you're not OK with it. A .698 slugging percentage is just about the average for 2Bs who get 400+ plate appearances. Would have ranked 17th of 28 in 2012 and 17th of 32 in 2011. Since Danny is an above-average defender, average offense would make him an above-average MLB second baseman. That's more than OK.

  102. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:04 PM

    Be that as it may, NatsJack, people are straining their muscles performing unnatural repetitive motions an unnatural number of times week in and week out. Obviously, these strains are an unnatural reaction to such unnatural repetitive activities, so someone simply must be fired.

  103. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:05 PM

    fair enough Natsjack… but still it seems that team that have injury issues with a vast majority of players should have questions about their medical and training staff

  104. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:06 PM

    "Folks, we seem to have lost the worst offender for the personal insults."I'm not so sure anyone who appears to have left has actually left. I was shocked to learn how loosey-goosey Blogger is about updating profile names without changing the name corresponding with previous posts by the same profile.

  105. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:06 PM

    thank you Ericthis should include McCatty as well. his job is to help his pitching staff not throw their arms out

  106. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:07 PM

    Mick, funy how the clique goes to defend each other and wants to ignore the facts. The other typical response is how great Dannys defense is and he ranks 4th in the NL of 15 in defense and last in OPS.

  107. Airhick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:08 PM

    See, check it out, Joe S!

  108. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:10 PM

    And, I'm back…mick said…"thank you Eric"Sorry, that post was dripping with sarcasm. I don't agree with you in the slightest on the injuries issue.

  109. gail - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:10 PM

    Hard to watch these Nats right now. Too many injuries and no offense. Without Bryce, the team looks dead. Solutions? A few suggestions: Replace Espinosa with a young, aggressive Rendon. Trade Roger Bernadina. Bring up more minor league stars to replace the aging bench. Send Henry R to a shrink, along with Ryan Zimmerman, Tyler Clippard, and Drew Storen. All four are head cases right now. May be time to replace the hitting coach AND the manager. Youth and spirit are what we need right now. Sadly, I knew this group of Nats wouldn't live up to the press hype – it swelled their heads too much.

  110. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM

    Moving on. Sorry, mick, but in Rizzo We [still] Trust GYFNG!!!

  111. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:11 PM

    Nats 128… you got this group down pat, lol they do the same thing when they mention some stupid stat about Lannan as well as part of their defense of getting rid of him…all I know is Lannan saved this team verse Braves in July 2012, h was fanatastic down the stetch as well.. they can take their negative stats on Lannan and do you know what with them.

  112. SCNatsFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:12 PM

    I might be the only one but I'm not mad at Mattheus; sure it was stupid but I'm glad to see someone got mad at the underperforming and the team losing. I for one would be happy to see Danny or Tracy smash a water cooler after yet another clueless K.

  113. EffYeahJDub - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:13 PM

    NatsLady, you mentioned Bryce seeming to have a change in heart about going on the DL. it could well be that seeing JDub have to take a month off o get healthy helped Bryce see that there would be times he'd need to do that to be well and not risk getting injured more. I don't take that as a sign that he's giving up his hard-playing ways, but rather that he's being more realistic about the fact that he exacerbated his knee swelling in subsequent games after the original injury and the next one might tear something and then he'd be out for the year.

  114. SCNatsFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:13 PM

    Gail I agree with you; this team read the reviews and felt they just needed to go out and other teams would fold. Sure the injuries have hurt, no doubt, but I blame Davey for letting this team get away from him.

  115. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:14 PM

    that is fine Joe… trust him all the way to 80 plus losses this season. I will give him a pass. But, what if this happens in 2014?

  116. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:15 PM

    I'm still waiting for Nats 128 to ID this mystery pitcher who was available at the trade deadline in 2012 and would have shut out the Cardinals and also homered in Game 3. I think maybe he saw that terrible Brendan Fraser movie "The Scout" and confused it with a documentary or something.

  117. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:15 PM

    "I'm glad to see someone got mad at the underperforming and the team losing."He got mad at his own underperforming and expressed it in such a way that compounded the team's underperforming (see: recent Braves series, game 2). I'm all about passion, but that was exactly the worst way to come by it.

  118. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:15 PM

    bowdenball said… Ghost Of Steve M. said…"If you are OK with (.230/.303/.396/.698) I don't know what to tell you JD."You can star by explaining why you're not OK with it. A .698 slugging percentageI think you meant OPS not slugging percentage. It's all the K's and failure in key situations to get bat on ball that overshadow the career OPS and all of that is overshadowed by the Mendoza level BA and OBP.The non-shocking news is that the pre-season projection companies even saw that Espinosa's number were going to take a dive. Nobody had him improving and that was prior to any revelations about his shoulder. The ones who really needed to see it was Rizzo and Davey.http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9219&position=2B

  119. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:15 PM

    Nats 128, I forgot…"its only a flesh wound"LOL

  120. Don - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:17 PM

    The roster needs adjustment. Last year Rizzo essentially stood pat during the season (Suzuki post deadline add notwithstanding). This year the Nats are expected to win. But, they have a big hole at 2B, they need offense desperately (even when healthy, they had trouble scoring), the pen has a couple of question marks and the rotation might be strained if Stras is shelved, which is quite possible. Not to mention that us all holding our breath every time Zim rears back to throw is at least a serious concern. Rizzo needs to make some moves to improve the club's odds of making a run at the Division. He needs to buy in a sellers market, not sure if that is is strong suit. We'll see.

  121. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:19 PM

    Eric said…And, I'm back…mick said…"thank you Eric"Sorry, that post was dripping with sarcasm. I don't agree with you in the slightest on the injuries issue.so be it, I find it incredible and you take blind obedience for Davey and rizzo to an all time high

  122. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:20 PM

    Nats128… the Nats could lose 80 plus this year and 90 in 2014 and this group would still be in denial and believe Rizzo and Davey are great

  123. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:22 PM

    I am going to make a prediction and if I am wrong… you all can blast me…Davey will not finish the season, he will either step down himself or get canned.

  124. RaleighNat - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:23 PM

    Rizzo's offseason moves appeared reasonable to me. The problem is options.Seems like he's been a bit slow to address the bullpen where he has some options. No excuse in my mind for continuing to march out Duke and HRod where we do appear to have some depth (Abad, Davis). Maybe you can hide one but not two.I think he should go with Lombo and send Espinosa down to get straight.Other than that, what is the man supposed to do? There aren't any magic bullets in the minors. Rendon is the only minor league player that could make a real difference IMO and just shoving him to second base at the major league level without any development would have been very risky.My take on the Nats is a couple of years ago we had one of the best farms in baseball. Between graduation and trading to build up the major league system for our "run", we find ourselves with a very talented front line but very thin.Minor League Options: Brown? – doesn't seem like much of an upgrade, Marrero? – where does he play? may be an upgrade as a pinch hitter but he would probably just atrophy (like TyMo) without regular at bats, Perez? – we can't afford another slap hitting low OBP guy in the line upTrade: Are we supposed to make a big trade and make the farm even more thin?Who are these players that everyone wants to bring up when we send everyone down?The team just has to grind, get healthier and start playing better. Period. I see no other options.

  125. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:25 PM

    What would be funny, if one has a sense of humor would be for Mark to post a count down clock like he does for the count down for pitchers to report and Spring training as well. This count clock would be for when Davey gets the boot, lol

  126. bowdenball - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:28 PM

    GoSM-Putting the ball in play a little more does not overshadow OPS. But if you are curious, Baseball Prospectus has a stat called "True Average" that accounts for so-called productive outs. It has Espinosa at .250 for his career and .255 for .2012. Lombardozzi is at .235 for his carer and .249 for 2012.So I'm not sure what solution you propose. Maybe you're saying they should have gone out and gotten a free agent because the hole at 2B was obvious. But as we've discussed before, the only decent 2B available on the market was Kelly Johnson, and he had been terrible and was on the wrong side of 30. Hindsight is 20/20, it's not fair to hold Rizzo responsible for not predicting Johnson's resurgence. And let's remember that signing a free agent probably also means no Soriano, so downgrade the bullpen this year too if they make that move.I know it's frustrating watching Danny this year. I think his performance this year is totally unacceptable and he needs to be replaced in the lineup immediately. But I don't think it's right to confuse 2013 Espinosa with his career numbers. He'd been a perfectly fine second baseman until this season.

  127. MrsB loves the Nats - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:29 PM

    Sorry Mick – I dont think Davey will get the boot before the season ends… Think they will give him enough time to get things going…Injuries are hurting us right now, its really that simple… BP hasn't done what it is supposed to do although lately (with the exception of HRod and Duke) things have gotten way better…

  128. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:30 PM

    "mick said… Nats128… the Nats could lose 80 plus this year and 90 in 2014 and this group would still be in denial and believe Rizzo and Davey are great"Thats true and a pig sprayed with perfume is still a pig. I still think this team is one of the better teams. Its just that the time to react was weeks ago after Zimm came back. The team wasted time not putting Rendon immediately into 2nd base at Harrisburg for at least 1/2 the games and starting Lombo at 2nd.Rizzo just doesnt seem to be proactive. The person who wrote last night what the Orioles did with Ryan Flaherty is correct. They sent him to the minors for a tuneup and hes come back and has contributed. If he falters they will send him down again. The Orioles have other problems and its called no pitching so I certainly am not saying they are good just saying they have been proactive with the struggling players they have.

  129. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:30 PM

    "so be it, I find it incredible and you take blind obedience for Davey and rizzo to an all time high"Obedience? Do you take orders from winning baseball coaches or are you just confused about your vocabulary words?

  130. mick - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:32 PM

    no… but you insult others who do not agree with you on the 2 genius' in a sarcastic manner

  131. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:34 PM

    bowdenball said… GoSM-Putting the ball in play a little more does not overshadow OPS.Indirectly the theory is BABIP which does affect OPS in that for every 4 balls you put into play 1 should end up a hit. You cut down on strikeouts by putting balls in play and good things happen.In the off-season I put together stats for Espinosa on just how that would boost up his BA hence boosting his OBP hence boosting his OPS.

  132. JD - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:37 PM

    RaleighNat, That's a pretty astute post. I think that at the time it made perfect sense to expect Duke to step into Gorzo's shoes. Their numbers looked close enough. For whatever reason this is not working at all and Duke has been a dissaster and I don't think he's long for this team. I don't think 2 months is unreasonable as a 'try out. Henry, I think is at the end of the rope as well. Again I see why they are giving him all this time. If ever he could have a semblance of command he would be unhittable but alas it is painfully clear that you can't put a game in his hands because of the very lack of command and because he can't and won't hold runners on. If Davis proves that he can be consistently reliable I think Henry is toast especially considering Mattheus will be back in a few weeks and Garcia is making his way back.

  133. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:42 PM

    "no… but you insult others who do not agree with you on the 2 genius' in a sarcastic manner"Where did I insult anyone in a way that even comes close to this gem of yours?"I know the Davey and Rizzo defenders in here (who now make me sick)"Or, are you saying sarcasm insults you? If so, shall I call you a WAHmbulance? ;)

  134. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:43 PM

    mick, name me a living manager with a higher winning percentage than Davey Johnson..

  135. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:44 PM

    Also, for the record, there are plenty of things Davey has done that boggle my mind. But, I'm not so enamored of my opinion as to think I know better than a manager with a proven track record of success.I don't have much of an opinion on Rizzo's moves because I know far too little about player evaluation, roster moves, etc., to form one.

  136. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:47 PM

    bowdenball, my solution which I laid out for 2nd base has never had Lombardozzi long-term or Rendon. Rendon is who I said after he was drafted should get reps in LF or 2nd base as to where the greatest need was and eventually be the 3rd baseman once Ryan Zimmerman moves to 1st base.Lombardozzi is a nice kid but he isn't the solution long-term. The best solution was in the off-season with all the 2nd baseman available in Free Agency. My guy was Kelly Johnson who had an offensive year near Espinosa but the projections for him in the off-season was an improved season and a 2.0 WAR while I mentioned that the off-season projects by all services projecting Espinosa was for regression. Kelly Johnson is now having an All Star type year with Tampa Bay. He was available for $2.5 million as a Free Agent and can play 2nd and outfield.

  137. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:51 PM

    RaleighNat–another good post. Bowdenball–your comment that Danny has been a "perfectly good 2B until this season" is on the money, and given that he is also a perfectly good SS, an even more premium position, it really puzzles me what is his problem on offense. He wouldn't have to do MUCH better, just a little better, and he would be fine measured against others in the position(s). If it's an injury he needs to get it fixed. If it's "mental" (whatever that means), see a sports psychologist. If it's a vision problem, get contact lenses. If it's simple exhaustion and frustration take a 15-day DL or 10 days in the minors.

  138. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:53 PM

    I'll defend Rizzo. I'm neutral on Davey.

  139. Joe Seamhead - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:56 PM

    Well, NatsLady, nobody that's knocking either of them seems to be offering any replacement ideas.

  140. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 3:57 PM

    Two months is about what Lidge and Stairs got, if I recall. I expect Rizzo will clean out Duke for Werth. Someone else will have to go if/when Detwiler comes back, and then when Bryce comes back. (Solano for Ramos, of course). Those guys know who they are and if there is anything they can do to stay in the Show, they will hustle, maybe even press. Bottom line, the changes will come.

  141. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

    NatsLady, Lidge and Stairs lasted until July. Much too long.

  142. Unknown - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

    I wonder often if all of these 21st Century ripped bodies are far more susceptible to injury and time on the disabled list.I go back to the late 60's/early 70's Washington senators as a comparison. Back then an athlete didn't stand out in a crowd. They were for the most part like everybody else.The only injury of consequence on the '69 team was Dick Bosman who missed a dozen starts. Several players didn't play 160 games only because manger Ted Williams loved to platoon (catcher, first, second, right). Does any fellow old-farts recall other injuries that I am missing from back-in-the-day? I think these souped-up athletes are just more apt to break down.

  143. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM

    >Well, NatsLady, nobody that's knocking either of them seems to be offering any replacement ideas.Yep. I'm neutral on Davey primarily because we only see the tip of the iceberg when it comes to clubhouse/player management. We see the lineups, the in-game moves, and occasionally hear about what Davey says to a player. Also, unless a manager makes egregious in-game decisions, it's really up to the players. They loved Ankiel both here and in Houston, but he got cut. You just don't know.

  144. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:01 PM

    "if/when Detwiler""if"?! Don't even say such things! ;)

  145. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM

    Unknown, it might be some of that, but I think it also has something to do with baseball player culture. I think until recently it was much more common for people to just play through injuries. I think it was Ray Knight who mentioned that in not-to-distant history, pitchers just pitched through an injury like Stras and Det have.It would be interesting to know what has led to a change in this culture; is it management protecting assets? Player unions battling for more protections for players? A combo? Something else?

  146. NatsLady - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:05 PM

    Brad Lidge's last game for the Nats was June 16, 2012. Matt Stairs was here until mid-July of 2011. Maybe that was a bit slow, but that was only a couple of weeks after Davey came on.

  147. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:08 PM

    Another thing that has crossed my mind is that I suspect manual labor was a far more common part of life for many earlier decades of baseball. It seems possible that players back in the day had stronger "core" strength, stronger tendons and ligaments, etc., than they do now.Now players generally build up strength almost exclusively by working out in a gym. I know from experience with back country backpacking that no amount of work in a gym can truly work out the muscles like humping a pack through the wilderness does. I think an equivalent comparison exists for kids who are brought up doing manual labor (e.g., farm hands) vs. going to school and working out in a gym.

  148. MrsB loves the Nats - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:11 PM

    I could have gone a whole day without hearing the names of Lidge and Stairs…I like both Rizzo and DJ… But you can like them and still question some of their moves…

  149. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:14 PM

    Joe Seamhead said… Well, NatsLady, nobody that's knocking either of them seems to be offering any replacement ideas.I probably seem to be talking from both sides of my mouth but both are 2 of the best in their positions and what you have to do is evolve in your position and make the tough changes. Don't stick with the problems as you have to see your own weaknesses first.The Nats the last 3 years seem very resistant to DFAing players. Outside of Brian Bruney's DFA on May 25 2010 I haven't seen that type of decision making since as no DFAs have occured since before June 1st of 2011 to 2013.They kept Doug Slaten for the entire 2011 season. Just another example of hanging on to players too long and as mentioned Matt Stairs last until July 2011 and Lidge hung on until June 25th of last year.

  150. blovy8 - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:24 PM

    They could probably do a challenge trade with some club involving Henry, but that doesn't change much since the guy they get probably wouldn't make a difference here either.

  151. JamesFan - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:32 PM

    Rizzo can't play the games for them. I do give DJ some blame for this. His player management does not seem sound to me.

  152. Nats 128 - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM

    I do find it interesting that all the projections for Espinosa were down arrows for 2013. Do they adjust manually when they hear theres a injury or is that just a computer calculation where it was projecting a worse year.Could Rizzo have had a better backup plan in place for 2nd base knowing the shoulder injury may create a downslide.

  153. sjm308 - Jun 3, 2013 at 4:47 PM

    MrsB – I think your point is what is driving Eric nuts. He has, to my knowledge, not accepted everything Rizzo and Davey have done but at the same time he has not used the word "suck" or demanded they be fired. I should not speak for others but none of us know what goes on the daily lives of a manager or GM. Several have inside scoop but still can't understand everything. I will say that I will buy Mick a case of whatever he wants to drink if Davey is fired (of course if he is not fired I want a case of my choice). You just don't embarrass a Hall of Fame Manager in what he has stated will be his last year. He might resign, and I doubt that as well but he will not be fired. It does seem to me that even though I seriously doubt that anyone of importance reads these comments, a change or two will be coming soon. The dates Natslady presented for Lidge and Stairs points to that. Like others, I will be upset if Kobernus is the one sent down. I have a criticism of Davey and that is, he does not use the kids when they are brought up. Perez basically sat, Kobernus has sat. We barely have a full 25 man roster as it is and Davey rarely uses it. One last point that I believe has been made multiple times. This is pure hindsight and maybe they don't get injured if they are here but Lannan, Morse, Burnett, have all spent multiple days on the dl and I don't think Lannan has pitched in well over a month. Just silly to keep bringing up people we should have kept when they could not help us right now.

  154. Don - Jun 3, 2013 at 5:20 PM

    I'll judge Rizzo on what he does from now on with the cards he's been dealt (the injuries, the standings, his current roster, the market, etc.). But, if waiting until the current guys are healthy before doing anything of significance is his plan, then I think he's being too timid. The Braves have a great club and are playing well, they have a lead and will likely get better performance from Uggla, Heyward, Hudson and BJ Upton, and they will likely not be shy when it comes to making moves to grab a Division crown. I think job 1 for Rizzo should be to add a 2B who can be a threat as a 2 hole hitter, pushing Werth to some spot where he can drive guys in. I like Werth's ability to get on, but I like his ability to knock guys in better. Chase Utley?

  155. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 5:22 PM

    "MrsB – I think your point is what is driving Eric nuts. He has, to my knowledge, not accepted everything Rizzo and Davey have done but at the same time he has not used the word "suck" or demanded they be fired."That pretty much hits it on the head. Overall I think under performance and injury are the #1 problems with this team, and I don't think either can be willed to resolution by roster changes or coaching. I think both can help some, but ultimately either your players operate at capacity or they don't.I think the current situation leaves no room for error anywhere, so all mistakes stand out in sharp relief, from Zim's throwing errors to Danny's trouble at the plate, to Davey making a questionable decision to pull a pitcher or leave a pitcher in, etc.I think Rizzo's role stands apart from day-to-day mistakes and successes; however, when the team is faltering across the board, he's the guy who chose the players and any possible mistakes on that front start to stand out. But, again, even here injuries play a role, e.g., with the make up of the pitching staff even before the season started (Garcia, Kimball).So, yes, there are things I've disagreed with and decisions whose wisdom I question, but again, I think a majority of the problems (at least 80%) are injury related or stand between a ball cap and the field of play.

  156. Eric - Jun 3, 2013 at 5:30 PM

    Oh yeah, one big issue I took with Davey early on was the apparent refusal to engage in small ball tactics. But, we've been going that route (or, at least, attempting to) more often lately, so I don't have any issue on that front at the moment.

  157. natsfan1a - Jun 3, 2013 at 7:08 PM

    Wait, are you talking about comment-typing or baseball-playing? ;-)Eric said… Be that as it may, NatsJack, people are straining their muscles performing unnatural repetitive motions an unnatural number of times week in and week out. June 03, 2013 11:04 AM

  158. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jun 3, 2013 at 9:06 PM

    Royals signed Brett last eeek to take pver a .36 club

  159. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jun 3, 2013 at 9:08 PM

    Wade Boggs is looking for a gig.

Archives

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WED: Nats at Dodgers, 3:10 p.m.
THU: OFF
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SAT: Phillies at Nats, 4:05 p.m.
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