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Instant analysis: Mets 5, Nats 1

Jun 29, 2013, 8:16 PM EST

USA Today Sports Images
Taylor Jordan allowed one earned run in his major-league debut.

Game in a nutshell: In his big-league debut, Taylor Jordan battled through some early wildness and shaky defense behind him. The rookie acquitted himself fairly well, but he couldn't overcome forces beyond his control. Three combined errors by Ryan Zimmerman and Ian Desmond (two of them coming on one play) produced two unearned runs and gave the Mets the lead. The Nationals lineup, meanwhile, was silenced yet again by Dillon Gee, who allowed only one run over six innings. And there was no late comeback this time, with the Mets beleaguered bullpen taking care of business to close this one out. Thus, the Nats again failed to carry over any momentum from the previous night's inspiring victory, and their on-again, off-again season continues. They have remained within 2 games of the .500 mark, in either direction, every day since May 19.

Hitting lowlight: As was the case Friday night, the Nationals were handcuffed by a Mets right-hander for most of the game. Unlike the previous night, they weren't able to flip the switch once they gotRead more »

  1. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:18 PM

    Go get 'em tomorrow.

  2. David Proctor - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:20 PM

    I want to post this in this thread again, since people continue to get on Zim:The general rule of thumb is that 1WAR is worth $5 million. Zimmerman is worth 2.0WAR so far this season, according to B-R. So he's on pace for 4.0 WAR, which is 20 mil. He's making 14 mil this year so he's actually a bargain this year. Assuming he continues to play on a 4.0 WAR pace when his contract escalates to around 20 mil, he would be exactly market value. Given that Ryan has multiple seasons of 4WAR and 5 WAR, it's reasonable to expect that he will earn his contract.

  3. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:21 PM

    it's reasonable to expect…I think I see your problem, there…

  4. Secret wasian man - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:26 PM

    Bad games happen. This was exceptionally bad. This team needs to win tomorrow and then beat a BAD Brewers team at home. Just wasting opportunities against bad teams.

  5. Section 222 - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:27 PM

    Been listening to Charlie and Dave while in PA. Thank you MLB app. That's another option for you folks who find 106.7 spotty. Another frustrating game. Totally agree with Amr about Jordan. I'm not impressed with a 4.1 inning outing, even with the defensive miscues. And no, he's not clearly better than Haren. Haren had quite a few decent games through 4 innings. A spot starter has to do better, like Ohlendorf did in his start. Why didn't Davey go with him? He was lined up perfectly after giving us 4.2 innings of solid long relief after Haren's last disastrous outing. Oh right, we needed him to pitch two innings in the bullpen over the past seven days. Actually, I'm not buying Davey's explanation for why we brought up yet another guy who couldn't make it out of the 5th. I think Rizzo thought or hoped he had found lightening in a bottle based on Jordan's hot start in AA. But once again, we find that minor league starting pitching success doesn't necessarily translate to the bigs. He does seem fully capable of giving us 2 or 3 good innings. So if Det isn't injured, which will require Ross O to take his spot, I'd put Jordan in the BP for long relief and give Ross O another shot in place of Haren. It's not going to kill him to take that role until Garcia or Mattheus is ready to come back. We simply can't afford to give Jordan 3 chances and never get a quality start as was the case with Karns.Sofa, didn't RZim lose the ROY to Hanley Ramirez? Wright came up a year earlier I think. And yes, he's a better player. Much more consistent and less injury prone. Zim used to be a potential HOFer. Then he was a GG caliber 3B and very good hitter. Now's he's an average fielder and a streaky hitter with pop, sometimes.

  6. David Proctor - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:28 PM

    Wheeler has been decent, but very erratic in his couple of starts. We have a good shot against him, especially if he continues to struggle with command. We've got Gio going which is good. I like our chances.The Brewers suck and Harper will be back. It's all good.

  7. David Proctor - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:29 PM

    Sec 222, I think you're being too harsh on Jordan. Jordan easily could have stayed in longer than 4.2IP. He looked MUCH better than Karns to me, at least. A lot of bloops and poor defense.Let's see how he does Thursday.

  8. DJB - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:35 PM

    Way to pick up a rookie making his first start! This pathetic inconsistency is the result of the play of the middle of the lineup. As good as yesterday's win was, this was just as demoralizing. The Lerners are going to have to eat some money, and get rid of one or more of the underperformers. By the way, where is Bryce! Does he need 9 innings in AA ball to know if he is healthy? Don't like this new attitude. He may be over-learning his lesson. We could have had Trout.

  9. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:35 PM

    Ah, W.A.R., the super secret formula that stats heads compute to tell us who is good and who is not since watching the games apparently is not enough. But what about Vorp? Man has never seen a hissy fit like that pitched by the stats head when the writers ignored them and chose Cabrera over Trout for MVP, war be damned. "But what about w.a r. ?," they yelped. "What about w.a.r.?"These w.a.r. and v.o.r.p. stats are essentially meaningless, except as an adjunct to traditional stats and even then, they are of dubious utility. But basically, it comes down to this. If Zimmerman can play at his 2010 levels for several more years, we will have made a good decision by signing him. If he trajects downward, then not so much. Something in between, then it is a tie.Of course, none of that takes into account the other players who might have been signed or not signed or shuffled into different positions like Rendon.And next time Zimmerman makes multiple errors at 3rd and blows another game–how many does this make?–just remember that if we wanted something better we should have opened up our pocketbooks and gotten someone more expensive.

  10. nats guy - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:36 PM

    David, The problem is that doesn't take in to consideration the problem of how he is adjusting to compensate for his poor throwing. Balls are getting by him that SB gotten if he was playing where he should be playing. If he plays in he cam make the throw but cannot field balls in the hole or hit sharply (Ole). If he plays back where he should be he has been having problems making the throw. It is blatantly obvious to anyone who has played the game above High School level. It has become pick your poison. When announcers on the Nats and other teams speak about this problem it is something that other teams have known for awhile and are using against the Nats. He is a great guy but a liability in the field until something gets fixed. WAR or not.

  11. David Proctor - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:37 PM

    Great, now we have people begging for Trout. I'm done here.

  12. Alphabet Soup Erik - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:37 PM

    Ryan Zimmerman and Jayson Werth are the most overpaid players in baseball. I guess Mike Trout is worth $55 million per year then if WAR is worth that much money. Zimmerman has cost this team 4 games this year because of his defense…no way has he won 6 games at the plate.

  13. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:44 PM

    It is obvious why guys like Harper and Strasburg are being hyper-cautious at this point in their careers. It is because they aren't making any serious money. Why should they come back even one minute early if they might risk losing the big dollars down the line after year five or six when the player's union grants them more equal status to the next crop of young players.Player's salaries are completely out of whack and not in terms of making too much, but rather in terms of distribution. Edwin Jackson and Dan Haren making 26 times what Bryce Harper makes is not healthy for the sport. It is ludicrous and the sort of thing that conservatives would be bitching about if done by any other union.

  14. Alphabet Soup Erik - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:47 PM

    Manny Machado is making the league minimum and has a 4.8 WAR and will win a gold glove…that is a bargain. He must be on pace to be worth over $50 million this year at 20 years old.

  15. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:47 PM

    WAR is garbage. I agree with you Erik.The basic concept of WAR is actually quite insightful and useful. The calculation thereof shows the hubris of the know-it-all stats heads who tricked Rizzo into thinking that Denard Span was the 9th best non-pitcher in the AL last year. I understand the concept of the replacement player. This simply means that Corey Brown or Eury Perez would have brought us just as many victories this season or more than Denard Span, but this has been a rough stretch for the stats heads. The pythagorean theorem is on creaky legs as well.

  16. jeeves - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:48 PM

    222, that is truly one of the stupidest posts I have ever read on this site. Not better than Haren has been! A rookie from double A who has three errors behind him, from, of course, the veterans. He didn't fold. He was far from perfect, but at least he kept the Nats in it, something Haren hasn't done time after time.

  17. Section 222 - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:51 PM

    I'm being hard on Jordan because this isn't September. We aren't so out of it that we can afford to try out AA pitchers to see what they have. We have to win ballgames. Alot of them. And you can't win many games if your starter can't get out of the 5th. That's why we got rid of Haren (I hope), and that's why Karns is back in the minors. Ohlendorf started once and pitched 6. He also went 4.2 innings in relief and gave up only one run. Give him a shot until he fails. And if he isn't the answer, then trade for Nolasco or someone else. Unless you want to throw in the towel. Of course, our offense was awful, so even if Jordan gave us a quality start we would have lost. That doesn't change my analysis of his performance. He walked too many guys, ran up his pitch count, and gave up a lot of hard hit balls. I'm sorry, I'm not going to feel proud of Jordan. He didn't do what we needed him to do today. Sorry if that seems harsh. But it's the truth.

  18. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 8:56 PM

    But you didn't watch the game did you, Section 222? I would respectfully posit that watching the game plus reading the box score is more insightful than listening and doing so. If you did watch it, then never mind.I watched and listened to the radio broadcast and I thought the kid was fine and I don't happen to think that anyone, anywhere could have watched this game and thought his performance was even remotely close to Dan Haren's last 3.

  19. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:01 PM

    I like Tyalor Jordan…feel bad for him. Zim and Desi piss me off…if you are going to make move, good players do not make mistakes like thathaving said that..where the hell was the offense verse a depleted bullpen on a sub 500 team??? There is no excuse or defense for this at all.Nats had their heads in their ass today

  20. JamesFan - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:02 PM

    For his first game above AA, I thought the kid was great. Frankly, he looked better than the rest of the team. I wonder how many games he pitched in AA in which the team made 3 errors behind him? So much for pitching to contact.

  21. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:02 PM

    Jordan was fine…2 veteran players who are allegedly All stars stunk the joint up today

  22. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:04 PM

    Secret wasian manlet me add..Nats need to sweep Brewers and win 8 of the last 9 home games

  23. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:06 PM

    sec 222…the differnce between Haren and Jordan is easy..Jordan belongs in MLB, Haren has no business playing on ANY MLB TEAM!!!Haren is terrible period…how can you be hard on Jordan??

  24. nats guy - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:07 PM

    I too actually thought the kid did OK. Given a little better fielding he might have lasted longer. I'm not even upset with this team any longer. Once I reconciled myself to the probability that they were about a 500 team it became easier to watch them. Time to pay attention to the base of this team for next year. Zimmermann, Rendon, Desmond, Harper, and Strasburg and maybe Gonzalez. As for the rest either get them healed, moved, or issues fixed for next year.I was not even upset about RZim's errors. I am concerned because nobody is talking about it on this site. If no error's happen his fielding must be OK. Errors aern't the whole picture.

  25. Section 222 - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:07 PM

    222, that is truly one of the stupidest posts I have ever read on this site.Ok then. Tell us how you really feel. I would normally ignore your post, as I do most of what you say, but since you called it one of the most stupid things you've ever read, I have to defend myself. Haren made 15 starts before he was "injured." In 7 of those starts he went 5 or more innings and gave up 3 or less runs. In 2 other starts he went 6 innings and gave up 4 runs. In one of those two 6-inning starts, he gave up only one run through 5 innings. In another start, he went 4 scoreless innings before blowing up in the 5th. So yes, Haren was better than Jordan was through 4.1 innings in the majority of his starts. He was terrible in quite a few others, I totally admit. But to say that Jordan was better is a big, big stretch my friend.And I explained why I don't care that he was a rookie coming up from AA and we played like crap in the field. Major league pitchers are supposed to pick up their fielders, get the big strikeout or popup to get out of the inning after an error, not walk the next batter. If he's pitching in the majors, that's his job, not just to do "ok" so we can pat him on the head and know his future his bright. That's what losing teams do at this time of the year. You're entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts.

  26. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:08 PM

    I never want to see that $13 million worthless sack of you know what ever pitch for Nats again

  27. jeeves - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:08 PM

    I watched the game as well. And possibly, Taylor might have got out of the inning, but Davey felt it was prudent to takethe rookie out. And I agree with his decision. But in every way imaginable, thingswent wrong for the kid. Broken bat singles and etc. But he still persevered. He deserves respect for this outing.And Ohlendorf, until lately at AAA, was not very good.

  28. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:10 PM

    "Major league pitchers are supposed to pick up their fielders,"seriously…how about a veteran like Zim picking up his rookie pitcher in his MLB debut…that seems more logical.Not only in the filed but on offense..where was the run support?????

  29. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:12 PM

    issue really is not the errors, issue is how only 1 run scored against a depleted bull pen on a bad team..that is what I want to know and I am sure the Lerners want to know

  30. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:14 PM

    bottom line, 10 games left from the so called next 17 of 20 at home and Nats are at 500, same old crap, same old not hitting with men on base and same old vets stinking with DP hits.

  31. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:16 PM

    The contact against Haren was substantial his last few starts. 19 homers basically speaks for itself. The contact today was not that substantial and if Zimmerman were healthy enough to properly field his position, we might have had a shut-out through five innings. Dork might have done just as well or better but at least we were in this game. We have been in very few of Haren's recent starts. I honestly doubt that I have ever seen a pitcher as bad as Haren be given as many starts in a season. I am sure it has happened but I can't remember it.Honestly, I don't care what happens with Haren and his arm. If he returned to form tomorrow, I still don't want to see him out there. I don't trust a guy who has no clue why he is as horrible as he is. That is basically denying that there is any problem at all. Dan Haren, go now and sin no more.

  32. Just wonderin' - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:17 PM

    Some really, really excellent hindsight being exhibited here.Better than 20/20, more like 20/15, even 20/10 ("We could have had Trout," indeed — as could about 20 or so other teams who let him slip to 25th in the draft).So how about some foresight?Tell me, please, those of you with such excellent insight, how much (if anything, you can say "let him walk"), the Nats should pay Jordan Zimmermann in a long-term deal so that he doesn't become one of the "most overpaid players in baseball" like RZ and Werth? Years and exact dollar figures on the Zimmermann contract, please. Because if you can see into the past so well, you must certainly be able to see into the future. No? And to show your confidence, how about underwriting an insurance policy that will pay off if JZ gets hurt or underperforms? And tell me, please, now — not in 2016 — which player the Nats really should have chosen in the 2013 draft. Because someone chosen later will do better than Jake J. and I'm sure you want to go on record now as knowing who that person will be. Think how good you'll look in 2016. Just like you knew who Mike Trout was and how he was going to be so much better than Drew Storen. You've got the note you made to that effect date-stamped, right? How about posting it for all to see?

  33. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:17 PM

    William O. Douglas LoefflerGod bless you and well said

  34. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:19 PM

    Interesting quote from the comments section of the Minneapolis Star Tribune at the bottom of an article about Span possibly being better than Mauer, Willingham and Morneau, regarding the value of Denard Span:bondo69Sep 26, 1211:07 amI don't believe in defensive metrics. I simply do not believe in any baseball stat that tries to place a numeric value on defense. Span is a decent center fielder, but he's not even remotely elite and any stat that says he's been MORE valuable than Mauer and Willingham because of his defense is pure baloney. So, with that said, if you can find some Jonah Hill-lookin assistant GM that worships at the WAR altar and therefore actually believes Span has been more valuable than Mauer and Willingham this season, you need to fleece that goofball immediately and as thoroughly as you can.

  35. mick - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:19 PM

    my last comment…Rizzo will wear Haren like old Jacob Marley's chain

  36. Jimmy DeMoney - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:20 PM

    FIRE EKSTEIN !!!He's not getting results from Nats hitters, who are choking big-time this year.It may not be his fault, but he MUST take the blame as most coaches in other professions are subject to.

  37. Section 222 - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:26 PM

    No argument on the run support. Pretty pathetic. But errors happen. Everyone jumped all over Stras, with justification, for blowing up after a Zim error. You have to rear back for something extra and get out of the inning. Stras didn't do it in that game against the Cubs, and Jordan didn't do it today. I'm not saying he's terrible and should never pitch in the big leagues again. I'm just objecting to the general, "nice game kid" attitude. I'll bet if you look back at Karns's first start you'd find the same kind of comments in here. And what happened with him? He started 3 games and never made it out of the 5th. Now he's back in AA. At least then it seemed there was no other alternative, but we now have Ross O and he gave us a quality start (6 innnings, 1 run) in his one opportunity on June 12. Davey then put him in the bullpen. Since then, we've played 15 games and he's pitched only twice — a total of 6.2 innings in relief and has given up 2 earned runs. And you want to send out a AA pitcher again?

  38. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:26 PM

    No one complains very much about big salaries when guys continue to perform at some reasonable equivalent to what they were doing before. People complain when there is a substantial divergence either over all, say with respect to Barry Zito, or when there is some sort of drop-off that makes planning for the team difficult.Ryan Zimmerman's offensive stats are passable, I guess, when viewed from expectations, although I thought he would actually improve from 2010 and have a string of 30+ homer seasons. His offensive production is different now, but far from bad. His fielding, on the hand, has been a nightmare because we have no contigency. There is nothing we can do except hope he starts fielding better, because first base is occupied and I guess Ryan doesn't think playing 2nd base with its shorter throw, is cool, or something.

  39. jeeves - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:29 PM

    Well said 222. You don't read my posts. That is really all you have to say. I read yours and they are about as pompous as one can get. You are very, wait, very very knowledgeable about baseball, and I defer to your expertise.

  40. Secret wasian man - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:31 PM

    Score 3 runs or more and we can talk about pitching and errors. This team couldn't hit the Ball off a tee.

  41. David Proctor - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:33 PM

    In happy news: Matt Purke allowed 1 hit, struck out 8 today for the Suns. He's going to have a quick ascent if he stays healthy.

  42. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:36 PM

    There were 3 errors in one inning. That does happen, to the Bad News Bears and to us, and the Mets, who made 3 on one play a couple of weeks back, I guess. But I am not sure how the kid was supposed to pitch through those errors since he didn't give up any other runs in that inning and the run scored directly on the 3 errors. It wasn't as though there was a guy on third that he let in later in the inning.I mean, he did pitch through it

  43. Secret wasian man - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:38 PM

    Os pitchers are mediocre maybe. But they know they will usually get 4 runs or more. So their entire approach is different. Our guys know that any more than 1 run and we are in trouble

  44. Secret wasian man - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:42 PM

    WODL. It's a culture with this team. They look no better than they did in April. Be glad when Davey is gone. Only bigger disappointment is the LA Angels. Be surprised if there . 81 81

  45. David Proctor - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:43 PM

    "They look no better than they did in April."This is flat-out not true. They have 8 come from behind wins in June alone. They almost NEVER came back earlier in the season.

  46. TexNat - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:44 PM

    Section 222, there is certainly reason to remain cautious in our evaluation of Jordan. But you are being way too harsh on his outing. You are missing that Davey took him out earlier than was necessary. He could have gone longer than 4.1. And the Mets batters were not making solid contact at the time he was lifted.

  47. DJB - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:44 PM

    The last two games exemplify the problem with making Zimmerman the cornerstone of this franchise. He gets a bases-clearing double in one, and then throws away the next. If he was Cabrera, you could put up with that, because you would get a lot more of the latter than the former. Ryan Zimmerman needs to be moved if the Lerners can pay for it, and Bryce needs to start playing, instead of hiding out in AA. I can't understand why 9 innings in AA is any safer than 9 innings in the Majors.

  48. d0e81e8c-9f37-11e1-a165-000bcdcb471e - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:48 PM

    I seriously think it's Rizzo and Davey. Zimmerman is playing when he should have taken the time to get his shoulder fixed. Mgmt, and coaches will play injured players into the ground in the hopes of a win, but eventually they just might learn you win with healthy players, no matter who they are.

  49. karlkolchak - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:49 PM

    I'm sorry, but blaming Jordan for this debacle is totally uncalled for. His being called up to make this start is exactly the same as what it was when they called up Karns–a desperation move by a franchise that left itself exposed by having no decent MLB-ready options at AAA to start the season. For a kid with just two months of AA ball, Jordan was okay, and might have made it at least through five full innings without the errors. Yes, he wasn't ready to be on the big league mound today, but that is hardly his fault, and that his veteran infielders, not to mention the putrid offense, let him down so dramatically just makes it that much worse.

  50. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:54 PM

    We started off 7-2 in April and were about to be 8-2, when all of a sudden there was a terrible throw to second base late on a Friday night against the Braves. I don't find the month by month analysis terribly edifying. We do have a substantially better record in games that Harper has played. Rendon is an upgrade at 2nd as long as he hits above .200. There is no reason we can't win at least 87 games this year. Is that great? No, but all we need to do is win enough to get to the post-season. We did the 98 win thing and you know what baseball gives you for having the best record in baseball? Squat.

  51. Section 135 - Jun 29, 2013 at 9:57 PM

    We have no chance with werth in the 5 hole. He has never been an RBI producer. He should be either lead off or 6-7. Span needs to hit 8 until he gets it going. Laroche will be traded this offseason. He is no longer a reliable number 4 hitter. Other than Desi Rendon and Harper Rizzo should offer up every position player for trade this offseason. Doubt anyone would take Zim or Werth but we need to replace one of them. If we can't hit Gee we have zero chance from here on out.

  52. David Proctor - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:00 PM

    "Laroche will be traded this offseason. He is no longer a reliable number 4 hitter. "He's hitting over .300 in his last 50 games…

  53. TexNat - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:00 PM

    I think the Nats are 2 games over with Rendon playing second base, and well over 500 with Harper in the lineup. So hopefully those two things together will allow the team to improve significantly in the second half.But Rizzo needs to add some help also. They need a 4th outfielder that is a plus hitter badly. If he could spell both Werth and Laroche that would be great.I'll just ignore the fact that they already had the ideal candidate for that role on their team and signed for less than 8 million a year. The past is the past I suppose. But they do need to go fill that role regardless.

  54. Section 135 - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:12 PM

    Laroche will be traded because he's the only person we can unload in the offseason. Zim will continue to prove that he can no longer play third anymore. He is playing shallow because he cant throw. Now he misses all the hard grounder due to his depth and loss of reaction time. Hopefully the manager next year won't just defer to veterans and play to win rather than let Werth decide where he wants to hit when in reality he should hit seventh.

  55. Mr Baseball - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:14 PM

    This team needs to start playing with and show some emotion. I'm tired hearing it's just one game and it's a long season. We need Harper back, he is the only one playing like this is no tomorrow. It's a shame when a young man has to give the team a spark, when we have so many veterans. Also, if they would have kept Harper in CF and not paid a heavy price (Alex Meyer) for Span, Harper may not be coming off the DL!. CF you get the best read and he had a cannon for an arm. He would have thrown the runner out at the plate today. Also, the dumbest comment made (last year) "we don't want to put physical and mental pressure on Harper by having him play CF". I look back and wonder how DiMaggio, Mays, Mantle, Griffey, Jr. and etc. lasted so long playing CF!

  56. Section 222 - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:19 PM

    Ok, let me be clear since some folks seem determined to misunderstand my posts:1. I don't blame Jordan for this loss. The blame clearly goes to the Nats' pathetic inability to score runs, and horrible D.2. I don't think Haren did well for us this year. He was terrible. He had the worst ERA in the majors. But if you just go by the first four innings of his starts he was no worse than Jordan was today. 3. I don't want Haren to start one single game again this year for us. Rizzo waited too long to get rid of him, I mean, put him on the DL.4. I wanted Ross O to get the start today. You can look it up. Obviously I expressed that preference well before Jordan was announced as today's starter and Ross O was used last night. I still think he would have been a better choice. 5. I do read jeeves' posts, I just generally ignore them because he is often insulting and rude. I had to respond to this one because he attacked me personally and was simply wrong on the facts.

  57. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:28 PM

    I agree completely, Mr. Baseball.The Span deal cut off Harper at the knees and robbed him of his ability to be a mythical outfielder. You have great outfielders in right and left at times, but mythic outfielders play center. Baseball is as much about telling a story as it is about moving about nuts and bolts. When I go to the ballpark, I want to see Harper in centerfield and if he isn't, there better be a damn good reason why not.

  58. jeeves - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:30 PM

    Insulting and rude! Wow, first of all I seldom post. And almost never attack others. But to say I was completely wrong about the facts so totally supports what I have already said about you. And you ignore but don't read my posts. Obviously, you contradict that premise everytime you make a comment. Not too bright, are you, 222.

  59. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:40 PM

    I still don't know how you can say that Taylor was no better than Haren through 4 innings. That is not a statistically significant comparison of course, but fwiw, his e.r.a today was far better than Haren's. Everyone who watched the game also has said, almost without fail, that he visually appeared to be a far better pitcher than Haren.Now what does that mean? Well, he wasn't leaving the ball up all over the place. He had some issues with balls and strikes but that is often umpire related. He in no way appeared over-matched. Haren has never not appeared over-matched this year. He had to deal with bloop hits, bad luck on the offensive end and 3 errors in one inning.Offensive contact against him did not seem even remotely close to the type of contact other teams made against Haren.You have to pitch through errors and Taylor did this and quite well. Is the Princeton guy a better choice? Quite possibly, but I don't remember anyone saying he wasn't. I think both of them have looked good so far but Dorf has a baseball history in the majors that is only so-so. Taylor may have more upside. Neither has made more than a handful of starts and both might get blown to smithereens the next time out, but hitting and defense and bad luck on the double killed our chances in this one, not the kid starter.

  60. DWS - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:41 PM

    You can lose a poster that now and then gave a relatively benign but knowledgeable post (without WAR, etc). jeeves you're fighting an uphill battle against the "If I was a GM and or Manager" wannabes.If I knew it all I'd be rich.

  61. DWS - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:46 PM

    WODL,Personally, I watch a ballgame. His infielders let him down multiple times. A young man making his first major league start and people are critical? I thought he did pretty well. But I'm not a GM?Manager, nor do I think I am.

  62. Section 222 - Jun 29, 2013 at 10:50 PM

    jeeves, once again, I do read your posts, I just generally ignore them, i.e., I don't respond to them. If you have difficulty understanding that, that says more about your intelligence than mine I'm afraid.

  63. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jun 29, 2013 at 11:39 PM

    Damn, Braves about to go 6 1/2 up.

  64. Tcostant - Jun 30, 2013 at 12:56 AM

    In NJ on vacaton, heard the Mets feed of the game. When Jordon was throw out 2B by not sliding. Howe Rose saw him laughing about in the dougout and sas strokng "what so funny kid, its a one run game"Can't say I disagree, no shame lef

  65. NatsFanSinceStart - Jun 30, 2013 at 4:11 AM

    I am really surprised that anyone could find any fault at all with the rookie today. I thought he pitcher very well – he gave up a bloop or two and a scratch single — mixed in with the complete fielding collapse of Zimmerman. I think the kid is far superior in 'stuff' than Haren — FAAAR better. I am surprised, shocked, and a little saddened by the deterioration of the skills of Ryan Zimmerman. His weak throw we all know about, but his fielding and range have been slowly declining all season– today his deterioration was complete. Yes, the two ground balls he booted today were hard hit, but he is playing third base – the hot corner and hot shots are part of the position. All thirdbasemen are expected to make both of those plays — balls hit right at him, and he boots them both. Wow.





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