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Ramos’ rousing return

Jul 4, 2013, 9:07 PM EST

Associated Press

Sure, Bryce Harper’s return from a five-week stint on the disabled list was going to provide a significant boost to the Nationals. Ask around the clubhouse, though, and there was just as much anticipation for Wilson Ramos’ return from a hamstring injury that cost him a total of nine weeks over two separate DL stints.

“He’s a statement player, and definitely somebody who’s just waiting for his turn in the spotlight,” teammate Ian Desmond said. “I think today he got a lot of recognition, and no one deserves it more than him.”

There haven’t been a ton of heartwarming moments for the Nationals so far in 2013, but the scene in the bottom of the seventh inning on Thursday — Ramos emerging from the dugout for a curtain call from the crowd of 38,221 after his three-run homer put his team in position for an 8-5 victory over the Brewers — ranks right up there with anything else.

Given all that he’s been through over the last two years — a kidnapping in Venezuela, a torn ACL, this latest nagging hamstring strain — Ramos soaked in every second of it all.

“That was a happy moment, an exciting moment,” he said. “I never did that before.”
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115 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:32 PM

    Just got back from the game and ate some "lunch/supper." Buses are on a holiday schedule, I guess.Some thoughts.(1) Phil Wood said in the post game that the official scorer has discretion and he can decide that a reliever was completely ineffective and award the win to someone else. He said he did that once when he was the official scorer in Ballmer.Nowadays that sort of "discretion" on seems to occur when the starter doesn't go five and subsequently there is a mix of reliever to choose from. Once the starter goes five, it seems to be whichever reliever is the last man to throw a pitch when his team goes ahead, no matter how short or dreadful was his performance (cf, Clip in the All-Star Game). Even worse, Gorzelanny, whose only sin was a bloopy single, took the loss because the reliever following him was just about as ineffective as Storen, and that one base-runner changed the lead.(2) The guy who sits next to me (actually a Pirates fan, but he and wife are Nats season ticket holders and wear Nats gear) is just like some posters here and declared the game over when the Brewers scored a run in the first inning….(3) Charlie and Dave said Drew Storen looked at the bullpen and saw Clip warming Too bad. Davey needs to get out of "teaching" mode. That was fine for last year, but we don't have any margin for error this year. Manage to win the games–every game. IF you need to have a back-up reliever tossing a few pitches (not a full warm-up) then do it! (4) As much as I (or anyone) can blame Davey, his in-game decisions are at least judgment calls (pitcher left in too long, pulled too early, etc.). You see managers like Gibson, Collins, Renicke, make stupid tactical errors (messing up double-switches), and their teams make MENTAL errors over and over again–baserunning, not hustling, forgetting how many outs, etc. There is no excuse for that at the major-league level.Remember a while back we called Davey out for not putting Eury Perez in to pinch run for Tracy? That's about the last time I recall Davey forgetting an "obvious" move.(5) That reliever who was starting (D. Hand) is a bad pitcher and SLOW as molasses out there. When you see that you realize how important it is for the pitcher (especially the starter) to set a good pace.

  2. jeeves - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:32 PM

    Practically every Nat's player has received some ridicule. But who doesn't love Wilson Ramos!

  3. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:42 PM

    In regard to Bryce not seeming to play with his usual intensity/enthusiasm. I would agree that does seem to be the case. There could be several reasons.- Physically. It's been very hot and humid. It could be that with all his time on the DL his body has not completely adjusted to playing conditions for nine innings. – Mentally. Remember, when he left he was the undisputed star of the team. Then he apparently lost some confidence in his body, had to follow Nats orders about the cortisone and PRP treatments, and also got in trouble for commenting on his rehab.Then, when he made his eagerly awaited return, he hit that HR and for the first game, it seemed like it would pick right up where it left off.Since then, he had two bad games. Has gone 0-fer as the plate and made two plays in the outfield that were both costly. Rendon is here, and hitting. Now Ramos comes back and is the latest hero. But Harper played OK today, he didn't make any fielding mistakes and they weren't giving him much to hit. He needs to learn to hit lefties, and you have to figure he will because having the IBB in front of him has to get your dander up. Harper is going to have to adjust no only his timing at the plate but also his view of himself as the savior of the team (if indeed he has that view–and I would be surprised he doesn't, at least a little). He's in a little slump, a slump that's no worse than Span's. It'll pass and he will get back to the Bryce we know and love.

  4. Theophilus T. S. - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:43 PM

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  5. Tcostant - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:46 PM

    The official scorer could have given that win to Talyor rather than Storen, he has that right when the guy in line for the win is ineffective.

  6. NatsJack in Florida - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:51 PM

    Great to have Wilson back.On another note, in Syracuse Danny Espinosa is 0-2 in his first to at bats with ….. wait for it….. 2 strike outs.

  7. d'grviii 8 - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:51 PM

    "jeeves said… Practically every Nat's player has received some ridicule. But who doesn't love Wilson Ramos!"You seem to have forgotten his propensity to drop the ball on plays at the plate.

  8. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:57 PM

    LOL the Mets and Heath Bell and Arizona. After Terry Collins intentionally walks the bases full (with no outs) in the top of the 13th, the Mets get out of it with only one run scored–the run the Aardsma walked in. That's thanks to stupid baserunning and a good throw by Marlon Byrd. Heath Bell comes in to close and promptly gives up his 93rd HR. And they are on to the 14th. I bet it's hot there, too.

  9. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 9:58 PM

    d'grviii 8, was going to say the same, but thought it might be rude on Wilson Ramos Day. ;)

  10. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:19 PM

    Danny got a hit, a two-out single.

  11. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:39 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  12. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:41 PM

    I seem to recall some people bashing Wilson for not throwing out baserunners, not holding on to balls from the outfield, not blocking balls, etc etc How soon the bashers forget. Next time he does something you don't like you will bash him again because that's what you do.I love this kid because he is a special person. He has that love for the game like Bryce. He sponged off of Pudge and learned from one of the greatest catchers ever and you can see it. Ramos handles the pitchers and reads the batters. He has a confidence about him, but he also knows his place. One of the best comments during the game is when Desi suggested to TJord to stop shaking off Ramos. It worked out well.

  13. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:45 PM

    I feel like a stuffed fat pig… Just ate some crabs, hush puppies, clams, spiced shrimp and had the nerve to eat a hot dog…Anyways —>. No doubt about it was this a great game and I a, extremely happy for W Ramos… That guy has been through a whole lot… I sincerely hope that he is able to play the rest of the season and won't have any more injuries/set backs… Glad to see the closest thing to the 'vision' of what DJ wanted in a line up today….Nothing against Suzuki becuz I like him a lot too (also thinks he calls a better game than Ramos) but Suzuki needs the rest/break…Saw the quote by Desi to T Jordan on calling off pitches…. Desi should tell Storen that too… Really hope Drew gets its together his next outting out… And I hope we see T Jordan get another chance to start… I will take 5 solid innings from him instead of 4 solid innings and then hell breaking lose from Haren any day…

  14. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:45 PM

    Larry Stone ‏@StoneLarry 6mMichael Morse did some work today, will run bases tomorrow, and if strained quad holds up, will start rehab assignment soon

  15. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:46 PM

    Arizona finally scored….

  16. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:51 PM

    I root for Bo Porter's club every game…. Sucks they lost today…

  17. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:54 PM

    MrsB–me, too. He's done better than expected with them, I think.

  18. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:55 PM

    Adam Dunn with a walk-off to beat the Bal'mores.

  19. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:56 PM

    Danny walked.

  20. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:56 PM

    I have mixed feelings NL… (This may sound bad but….) on one hand I want Bo to succeed…. But on the other, I want him to fail so the Astros can fire him and then we can hire him to become our manager…People like to constantly discuss Morse and his value to the team, I actually thought B Porter was more important and he was one of the ones I really hated to see go… Where DJ is laid back, Bo lit a fire under them…Was terribly disappointed that he left and was hoping that Rizzo and them had made some type of manager in waiting deal for Bo after DJs done managing…

  21. NatsLady - Jul 4, 2013 at 10:59 PM

    Bo is from Houston. I remember his kid saying how happy he was they wouldn't have to live in "the baseball house" this year. That had to be an incentive. Arizona finally won it, even though the Mets had runners on 2nd and 3rd.

  22. Drew - Jul 4, 2013 at 11:02 PM

    Top pick Jake Johansen is about to make his third baby start for Auburn. Let's see if the big guy can make some strides with his control.In his first two outings — 2.1 innings each — he's allowed one earned run for a 1.93 ERA, but he's given up six walks.

  23. Drew - Jul 4, 2013 at 11:29 PM

    So far so good for Johansen. In the first he got two groundouts, hit a batter and the next hitter popped out.

  24. Get Some Players - Jul 4, 2013 at 11:39 PM

    Just saw a pic of Ryan Z and his wife Heather. I do believe she is expecting.

  25. mick - Jul 4, 2013 at 11:51 PM

    what a day, Ramos a beast…and as my boy Muddy Waters would say…"Yeah bring me champagne when I'm thirsty.Bring me reefer when I want to get high."

  26. UnkyD - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:09 AM

    Have that one on vinyl, Mick!

  27. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:40 AM

    Danny got another hit (bunt). Scored a run.

  28. karlkolchak - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:41 AM

    I know I am always going on about the lack of accountability with this team. Well, Mr. Storen ought to be REALLY thankful he doesn't play for the Mets. From MLB Trade Rumors:"The Mets have designated right-handed reliever Brandon Lyon for assignment, according to the team's official Twitter feed…. "…As ESPN's game log shows, Lyon had been reasonably productive for New York until he was bombed by the Nationals last Friday and Sunday. He is currently sporting a 4.91 ERA in 33 innings thrown, though he was sitting at 3.16 earned per nine before the Nats came into town."http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/mets-designate-brandon-lyon-for-assignment.html

  29. SCNatsFan - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:44 AM

    I think Suzuki gets the shaft because his numbers will look bad because he has been playing every day. With rest I think he picks up but no doubt he is tired. Having Wilson back, I think, will be good for him.

  30. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:50 AM

    Well, there is the small difference that Brandon Lyon is 33, and was on a 1 year $750K deal. It's more like when the Nats designated Zach Duke than Drew Storen.

  31. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:51 AM

    karlkolchak, storen has options so worst scenario for him is he goes to AAA. but I think storen will figure it out. every reliever hits a bump every once in a while.

  32. jeeves - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:53 AM

    Guess you managed to say it anyway, Natslady. And I stand corrected.

  33. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:55 AM

    That said, I'm not defending Drew Storen. Said a couple of years ago when "Clip & Store" was the big thing that Storen would flame out long before Clippard. I still think so. Taking a fireworks break. Later, folks.

  34. karlkolchak - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:02 AM

    Faraz Shaikh – I realize he has options. That makes his current presence with the big club even more inexplicable.

  35. Eric - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:06 AM

    "Because he shook off a bunch of times today to get to the hanging changeup and the hanging breaking ball."Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark ;).Really cool that Ramos got that moment on his first day back…and that both highly anticipated returns this week delivered home runs.

  36. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:08 AM

    lesser usage for next few weeks makes more sense than just sending him down. first of all, we don't have a replacement. second, many late inning relievers go through rough patches.

  37. Drew - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:13 AM

    Johansen made progress. He went four innings for Auburn and allowed only one unearned run. He hit a batter and walked two.The good news: in his first 8.2 innings at Auburn, Jake has a 1.04 ERA.The bad news: He has walked 8 hitters.Clean the fungus off your shower shoes, big fella.

  38. Eric - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:14 AM

    Braves and Marlins tied, bottom of the 6th…

  39. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:17 AM

    GoSM, Haren is definitely not a bullpen material with his high HR ratios. I can just see fans here calling out rizzo and davey for haren being in the bullpen.

  40. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:18 AM

    oops GoSM's post gone again. what did you ever do to Mark, GoSM?

  41. David Proctor - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:21 AM

    It's funny because for like two years now I think I've seen people worried about Clip's arm from all his usage (and I was definitely one of those people). But he keeps going out there and is as effective as ever.

  42. Eric - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:23 AM

    I dunno…Storen's 2 recent outings have been horrific, but who else is likely to have lodged 17 straight scoreless innings leading up to them? I think sending him down would be a mistake.

  43. Eric - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:24 AM

    Braves' side retires on 10 pitches…

  44. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:25 AM

    David, even Clippard had rough times and I remember fans here calling for his head. one of those games where jordany homered off of him.

  45. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:27 AM

    agreed Eric. sending him down will just hurt his confidence, that's all. at least until ASG, we can use him not as frequently as we have recently.

  46. David Proctor - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:28 AM

    Well I'm not saying Clippard has ever struggled, but if you asked me to pick between Clip or Storen, I'd have picked Clip. Even before this season. 9/10 times, he manages to get the job done.

  47. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:54 AM

    I seem to recall some people bashing Wilson for not throwing out baserunners, not holding on to balls from the outfield, not blocking balls, etc etc How soon the bashers forget. Next time he does something you don't like you will bash him again because that's what you do.Darn right we will. Just like we'll "bash" Espi, Storen, Haren, and anyone else who deserves criticism. What, is Ramos immune? It doesn't mean we've forgotten their great days. It just means we want to see good baseball. And you do it too, by the way. Should I go to the videotape? But do tell us who is off limits. I don't want to transgress.

  48. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:56 AM

    Danny with a double.

  49. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:04 AM

    Danny with another hit, RBI single.

  50. SCNatsFan - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:08 AM

    The problem with Drew is like Haren; not only is he missing but he is serving up beach balls.

  51. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:08 AM

    Going into today, Danny's BA was .088. He's raised it to .133, including walking off the Chiefs (6-5) with that last hit. :)

  52. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:10 AM

    Going into today, Danny's BA was .088. He's raised it to .133, including walking off the Chiefs (6-5) with that last hit. :)He's ready! Bring him up! :-)

  53. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:11 AM

    LOL, 222. Just what FP would say.

  54. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:24 AM

    Am I the only one bummed by the thought that Danny "HR" Haren is going to bump kid Jordan from the rotation next week?Are they choosing to start Haren solely because of their economic investment in him?

  55. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:24 AM

    NL, right! Somehow I doubt FP would say that about Espi, but it seemed like an appropriate reference to make.

  56. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:28 AM

    Marlins have just gone ahead of the Barves top nine.

  57. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:28 AM

    Kimbrel walked two and Fish scored on a single. 4-3 in the top of the 9th.

  58. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:30 AM

    No Bobby, you're not…. Not sure if you read the game thread or any of the prior comments but a few of us discussed it today…

  59. JaneB - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:32 AM

    I loved this story, Mark. Thank you for it! Mrs.B, I also love and miss Bo and love that the Astros are already doing better than predicted. He's a class act and a good spirit.

  60. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:32 AM

    I feel bad for Espi… I do but he has bought this embarrassment onto himself… He needs to get the surgery and shut it down… I mean even when he was K'ing a whole lot last year, he wasnt this bad….

  61. David Proctor - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:34 AM

    And Cishek walks Freeman, putting the tying run on base with no out.

  62. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:39 AM

    Going back and reading them now, Mrs. B. Just got home after long day at the game, etc. Thanks for the direction.

  63. Eric - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:39 AM

    Fish one out away…

  64. David Proctor - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:41 AM

    BJ Upton strikes out to end the game. Surprise surprise. We gain a game.

  65. Eric - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    Fish win! The series, too, no?

  66. Brandon Wedel - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    Got em' coach. Marlins win!!! 6 GB

  67. David Proctor - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    Yes, Eric.

  68. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    Braves lose 4-3

  69. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    No prob, Bobby… It would be a cry shame, I think, for Jordan not to get another start…. He had a very good game today…

  70. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:48 AM

    I'm hoping we go 7-3 over the next 10 games before the AL break…

  71. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:00 AM

    Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me said… Am I the only one bummed by the thought that Danny "HR" Haren is going to bump kid Jordan from the rotation next week?Are they choosing to start Haren solely because of their economic investment in him? I made a few comments on whether Rizzo has the ***** to keep TJord. I doubt it.I have seen enough of Taylor Jordan to say he deserves another start. Long-term my concern is that he doesn't have enough in the repertoire to get past 6 to 7 innings. He has to develop the slider.We already know Haren and Taylor Jordan gives the Nats a better chance of winning.

  72. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:05 AM

    Robbie Ray promoted to Harrisburg.

  73. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:13 AM

    This was Ramos 2nd or 3rd best clutch hit. Here's his best one:http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=16145921

  74. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:15 AM

    "Indeed, the Nationals picked up their sullen reliever with an impressive rally against the Milwaukee bullpen." Sullen? Wow, that's not good.

  75. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:16 AM

    Totally agree, Mrs. B. The whole town owes him a W.

  76. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:30 AM

    MrsB loves the Nats said… No Bobby, you're not…. Not sure if you read the game thread or any of the prior comments but a few of us discussed it today… Yes we did and we all know how this "best 25 go North" thing works.

  77. Drew - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:31 AM

    The pitchers are moving along on the farm. Ray is still 21, just two months older than A.J. Cole.Ray could pitch for Harrisburg Friday during their doubleheader, according to NationalsProspects.Barring a major trade (Tampa has to deal Price eventually) the Nats will have fierce competition in the coming years for spots in the back end of the rotation.Jordan, Karns, Ray, Purke and Cole could knock on the door before Giolito kicks it down.

  78. Nats 128 - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:35 AM

    The best 25 is a moving target. Rizzo can send Taylor J back to the Minors and give Haren another chance and then go from there.Haren could surprise us after his cortizone shot. The question is who gives the Nationals the best chance of winning 5 days from now, Haren or Taylor J.

  79. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:39 AM

    128 – I will take Taylor J… He can give a solid 5 innings… Stammen/Ohlendorf for 2 innings and then on from there..Jordan deserves another shot… Totally different from Karns… Haren has played in ample games and has only had 3/4 decent games… Haren isn't seriously hurt, that was one of those phantom injuries, I believe, as the Nats felt like they had to do something since he wasnt producing…

  80. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:40 AM

    Sometimes, Ghost, the Nats seem to move away from the whole best 25… Blind loyalty has unfortunately gotten in the way…

  81. Nats 128 - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:45 AM

    Haren has 1 last shot. Taylor J will go to AAA and work on his slider.

  82. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:46 AM

    I would like to see Taylor Jordan get another start aslo, but isn't he on an innings limit? If he can't finish out the year, then we have to solve the fifth starter problem anyway. I think Rizzo will want to see if the rest and cortizone fixed Haren or not and they may want to find this out before the trade deadline. However they decide to work it, I'm just going to stand by and watch.

  83. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:48 AM

    MrsB loves the Nats said… Sometimes, Ghost, the Nats seem to move away from the whole best 25… Blind loyalty has unfortunately gotten in the way… Never more evident than this year. I would say if Haren gets 1 more chance Davey has to have a super quick hook.

  84. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:49 AM

    SonnyG, I think NatsJack and I believe TJord's limit is 140 innings.

  85. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:53 AM

    Yeah SonnyG, we will see… I'm wondering if they will maybe do the opposite of the whole SS situation from last year… Don't they limit him/skip some of his games/delay him so he can be closer to that innings limit in, say, Sept or Oct…It's a lot of questions… The best case scenario would of course be Haren getting himself together…

  86. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:55 AM

    I like Davey… Yeah I question some things but I got into it with a lot of folks last year becuz I said a big knock on him was his loyalty…I get it but sometimes, enough is enough…

  87. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:13 AM

    MrsB, I don't think there's any way Rizzo is going to ramp Taylor down, then ramp him back up just so he can pitch in September. There is no way, baring injury, that Taylor would be one of the pitchers in the playoffs. The games now are just as important as the ones in September, so no reason to delay him. I don't think that is good for a pitcher anyway. They need to keep stretching him out each year and that's best done in a single block of games, imo.

  88. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:31 AM

    OK – back from the fireworks!!Great to read that the Braves tanked again against the Fish. Miami really has been playing better lately.On the Haren/Jordan issue, I have an answer but it is way outside the box and will never be done. I don't have the greatest memory but except for one or two of Haren's starts, I believe he has been pretty solid for the first time through the order and maybe even into the 4th inning. Let him know that is all he will be responsible for. Let TJordan know that he will be warming up to come into the game in the 4th/5th inning and treat that like how he would warm up for a start. If we get 4 out of Haren and 4 out of Jordan and both are quality we should be ok. This also keeps Jordan's inning limit from being a problem later in the year or at least extends his stay into the big leagues. I am sure you will mostly laugh at this but it might just work.Go Nats!!

  89. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:46 AM

    sjm308, I think your idea has merit, but the problem I would have with it is this: Everything would be ok, if we are ahead at the end of Haren's four innings, but if we are ahead, we wouldn't want to take him out. If we are behind at the end of Harens four, or Haren is in trouble in his fourth inning, I don't think we would want to put in Taylor to clean up somebody else's mess. Taylor doesn't have the maturity and experience for that…Craig Stammen does and that would be his job. Just my opinion of course.

  90. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:53 AM

    Agreed SonnyG and I realize it will never be accepted by the people who honestly manage in the Major Leagues but I just thought if Haren knew he was coming out he might attack things differently. Your point about Taylor though is a good one. Maybe if things are going well you go with Jordan and if things are messy you insert Stammen. I understand its pretty certain TJordan will be back in the minors but I did think he was better than the other young man they brought up from AA. I also like that it appears we will not have to go the free agent route again this year to find that fifth starter. I appreciate that I was not laughed out of the blog for this thought (at least not by the first post anyway).Go Nats!!

  91. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:00 AM

    I certainly wouldn't laugh at your idea. As I said it does have some merit and I think you were creative in coming up with the idea to take a look at.

  92. NationalsFanatic - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:00 AM

    Does anyone know when Mattheus might be coming back? Also, how about Garcia? This is getting interesting because I think not only is Haren's next start (next week I think)in play here, but so is Detwiler's (1st Phillie game next week in Phillie). So if Haren is really good and Ross is not or at least can't make it more than twice through the lineup, does Ross go to the bullpen and Jordan take his spot? If that happens who goes down or leaves from the bullpen?What happens if both Haren and Det continue to underachieve? The Nats have 10 games left before the All Star break, during those 10 games hopefully the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation will solidify or a least be clear to Davey and Rizzo what needs to be done to shore up the back end of the starting 5.

  93. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:03 AM

    I also thought about your idea, but reversing Haren and Jordan, ie starting Jordan, then putting in Haren. My next thought was we really don't want to pay someone $13M just to pitch four innings. I think the best thing is to find out if this guy is fixed and if not, find a replacement.

  94. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:07 AM

    It really is going to be interesting. If Haren is decent they will have some huge decisions to make concerning several relievers. Do they let Abad go? I can't believe they would send Kroll down. If Abad is the short straw, that puts Davey back to just one left handed relief pitcher and we saw how that played out. Storen also has options but it appears the knowledgeable people on here do not think that is a good idea.If we keep going with Wonk's formula of 50% wins from the 4 & 5 along with 66% wins from 1-3 I don't know that I make any changes. Mattheus and Garcia will just have to stay sharp in AAA. I guess having too many options is sure better than not having enough.

  95. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:12 AM

    It will be interesting, sjm. I'm glad I'm not the one that has to make the decisions.

  96. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:14 AM

    agreed sonnysee you good people tomorrow!

  97. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:18 AM

    All good questions, NationalsFanatic. I certainly don't know what they'll do. I don't think Detwiler will go to the pen, though. I think the league has adjusted to Det throwing so many fastballs, with which he had much success at the beginning of the year. Now I think Det needs to adjust and mix in more breaking balls and offspeed to keep the hitters off balance. I would like to see Det develop a slider or cut fastball as an additional pitch.

  98. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:21 AM

    Re Det a slider or cut fastball: Wait until the off season to do it.

  99. SonnyG10 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:22 AM

    Hope everyone had a nice holiday; I sure did. Good night!

  100. Joe Seamhead - Jul 5, 2013 at 10:16 AM

    A few random thoughts.Like most everybody else here, I was so thrilled for Ramos to be the hero of the game on his first game back, and for the rousing ovation from the home crowd. His post game interview was touching.I still like Davey, but boy did he upset me yesterday when he left Storen in after he gave up the first home run. I also wasn't too sure about the lineup, but it sure worked out OK.Jayson Werth has had a few good games since returning from the DL, but sure would like to see him reduce his strike outs.ALR is certainly looking better than he did in the beginning of the year, but would really like to him drive in more runs. Atlanta losing their series to the stinking Fish was a gift.Too bad the Nats didn't take better advantage of it. Yesterday the Fish not only won, but they beat Kimbrel and they did it on a day when Giancarlo went 0-5. BJ Upton ends the game with another strikeout. Let's just say this hasn't been BJ's year,so far.Speaking of BJ Upton, Jordan Schafer has put up impressive numbers when Fredi Gonzalez has sat BJ, but Schafer was put on the 15 day DL with an ankle contusion. They called up Joey Terdoslavich, who has torn up AAA pitching this year.Between The struggles of BJ and Justin Heyward, and all of their injuries, it's pretty impressive that the Braves have done so well. Gotta give Fredi Gonzalez some credit there. Going to the game tonight, will root hard for Gio and the Nats. Though it's a repugnant thought, I guess we have to pull for Cliff Lee and the Phillies to beat Atlanta tonight?

  101. Joe Seamhead - Jul 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM

    NatsJack in Florida said…I like knowledgeable baseball fans. Anyone who has met me (including over 30 regular posters from this site) will vouch for that.July 04, 2013 2:37 PM—-///—-I'll vouch for it, but you're also a crusty, beer swilling, lecherous old curmudgeon. Then again, I like that in a person.

  102. Doc - Jul 5, 2013 at 10:47 AM

    I agree Seams.Let's hear it for crusty, beer swilling, lecherous old curmudgeons. They are what made our courntry strong!Indeed, much better for baseball than relief pitchers who throw hanging Bugs Bunny balls.

  103. MicheleS - Jul 5, 2013 at 10:55 AM

    +1Joe Seamhead said… NatsJack in Florida said…I like knowledgeable baseball fans. Anyone who has met me (including over 30 regular posters from this site) will vouch for that.July 04, 2013 2:37 PM—-///—-I'll vouch for it, but you're also a crusty, beer swilling, lecherous old curmudgeon. Then again, I like that in a person.

  104. NatsJack in Florida - Jul 5, 2013 at 11:01 AM

    Thanks, guys. And I appreciate that you included "old" towards the end instead of at the beginning.To that less than truthfull poster that stated Davey threw Espi under the bus yesterday….. WRONG!…. Davey sent a message load and clear. Danny listened and responded with a 4 for 7 day and actually 4 for 5 day after the first two at bats where K's.Maybe the lite bulb came on on the over swinging issue.Let's hope.

  105. Joe Seamhead - Jul 5, 2013 at 12:48 PM

    Giancarlo went 0-5, but he did make a very nice, game saving catch, robbing Uggla of a game tying RBI hit in the bottom of the 9th.Here's the catch:http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_07_04_miamlb_atlmlb_1&mode=video&content_id=28615645&tcid=vpp_copy_28615645

  106. jw - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM

    This comment from the MLB rules makes it seem like, as far as an official scorer is concerned, three outs from a relief pitcher is enough to not be considered ineffective. Since Storen recorded three outs and left with the game tied – he may not have pitched well (obviously), but he wasn't ineffective according to how scorers record wins and loses.http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jspRule 10.17(c) Comment: The official scorer generally should, but is not required to, consider the appearance of a relief pitcher to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than one inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even if such runs are charged to a previous pitcher). Rule 10.17(b) Comment provides guidance on choosing the winning pitcher from among several succeeding relief pitchers.(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.

  107. d'grviii 8 - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:16 PM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  108. d'grviii 8 - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:35 PM

    Those rules you are citing are for the situation where the starting pitcher leaves the game with the lead but has not pitched the five innings required for the win. In that situation, the official scorer must choose a relief pitcher to assign the win to, and the rule provides guidance for that. This was not the situation yesterday. Taylor Jordan qualified for the win provided his bullpen could hold the lead. In other words, he was the pitcher of record. But as soon as that lead was lost, he no longer was the pitcher of record. At that point, the rules state that whichever pitcher is in the game when the go-ahead run is scored is assigned the win. Even though Storen was pinch hit for during the inning where Ramos's HR put the Nats ahead, he remained the pitcher in the game until Clippard took the mound, at which point the Nats were ahead. So the win went to Storen, with no scorer discretion allowed. This happens all the time. It's called "vulturing a win". Clippard himself did it in 2010(?) when he had 10 wins before the All Star break.

  109. jeffwx - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:51 PM

    (3) Charlie and Dave said Drew Storen looked at the bullpen and saw Clip warming Too bad. Davey needs to get out of "teaching" mode. That was fine for last year, but we don't have any margin for error this year. Manage to win the games–every game. IF you need to have a back-up reliever tossing a few pitches (not a full warm-up) then do it!Thank you, Nats Lady, for articulating so well what I could not formulate in my mind.

  110. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    jeffwx, it was frustrating for fans last year, but I could see the reasoning behind it. Times up, now. For whatever reason, bad luck, bad timing, injuries, the Nats are at .500 at the half-way point. The talent is there, and, actually, so is the "experience." Be tough, Davey, and devil-take-the-hindmost. I'm fine with Haren coming back. But if July is like June, he goes away and Rizzo buys something at the deadline. If Drew Storen doesn't fix himself (or he's still injured), down he goes, bring up Garcia. Chad Tracy–thanks for the memories, etc., etc.

  111. jw - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:34 PM

    @d'gvrii8 — I'm confused. I think we're on the same page as far as how wins are assigned to relief pitchers, but I'm not sure…Since rule 10.17(c) is discussing relief pitchers, I thought I'd picked the right section for the question of reliever effectiveness and what scorers look for. Yesterday I'd put in the comment on section 10.17(a) to try to answer the question of how Storen could be credited with the win at all, since someone was suggesting that there should be a rule that someone who blows a save shouldn't be allowed to be credited with a win. I think you and I are in agreement that the rules say that's not a possibility. Was this comment referring the section you had in mind? Rule 10.17(a) Comment: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest insofaras the winning pitcher is concerned.

  112. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:41 PM

    jw, you had it right. 10.17(c) is an exception to the general rule that the winning pitcher is the pitcher of record when the winning team goes ahead to stay. 10.17(b) is also an exception to that general rule in the case of a starting pitcher who doesn't pitch 5 innings.It seems to me that the comment to 10.17(c) you cited doesn't rule out the scorer having the discretion to deem a pitcher ineffective who gave up 3 runs, including 2 home runs, even if he got all three outs in the inning. But it's clearly a discretionary call.

  113. Doc - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM

    I doubt that the Offical Scorers of MLB are ever discrete. At least, I've never seen them use their 'discretion', as it were, per se, vis-a-vis.The fact is that none of us, including me, seem to think that Stor deserved the W–because he didn't!By the way, with ARen and Ramos, we now have a bit of power unit at the back end. Much better than Espi and Zuk.Goooooooooooooo Nats!!

  114. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 6:07 PM

    "I doubt that the Official Scorers of MLB are ever discrete."I can't usually tell them apart, either, but I'm too discreet to say so.; )

  115. Doc - Jul 5, 2013 at 6:19 PM

    Now that's funny Sec. 3!Less discreet, and more real sheet, I'd say would be better for the Nats!

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