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VIDEO: On run support, Storen’s struggles

Jul 5, 2013, 12:55 PM EDT

On last night's episode of "The Baseball Show" on CSN, we delved into several Nationals-related topics, including the extreme lack of run support Stephen Strasburg has received this season. In the above clip, Rob Carlin, Jim Duquette and I discuss just how good Strasburg has been and how he has handled the adversity.

We also got some perspective on the subject from a guy who knows a little bit about pitching: former Cy Young and MVP award winner Vida Blue, who shared his thoughts on Strasburg and the general concept of run support. Scroll down below to watch that clip.

And we also discussed Drew Storen's up-and-down season, which perhaps hit a low point yesterday when he served up two home runs in the seventh inning and then had an interesting exchange with Steve McCatty on the mound. Check out the final video for our thoughts on that topic…Read more »

  1. 5c3cd06e-cef8-11e1-abe6-000bcdcb2996 - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:26 PM

    Storen is so thick headed that he probably told himself people were chanting "dreeeeew" as he was getting booed walking off the mound.

  2. jeffwx - Jul 5, 2013 at 1:52 PM

    (3) Charlie and Dave said Drew Storen looked at the bullpen and saw Clip warming Too bad. Davey needs to get out of "teaching" mode. That was fine for last year, but we don't have any margin for error this year. Manage to win the games–every game. IF you need to have a back-up reliever tossing a few pitches (not a full warm-up) then do it!Thank you Nats Lady for articulating so well what I could not formulate in my mind.

  3. jeffwx - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:05 PM

    How many extra wins does harper in the lineup give you ? How about Ramos ?I guess WAR gives me some estimate of that.but offhand, these two, plus a stronger bench with them back, turns a .500 team into a +10 games over .500 team. But Nats w/o these two are better than a .500 team ?Give me 90 wins then and a .610 winning pct (47-29)

  4. jeffwx - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:06 PM

    or 47-30 the rest of the season

  5. jeffwx - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:09 PM

    moore,lombo,bernadina,suzuki,tracyCan we make the bench better before July 31 ?should we ?So the dodgers have three men on base ?The blogger asks, which one ?(When Vance, Hermann and Zeikler all met at 3rd in 1926)

  6. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:14 PM

    It was interesting that only Drew and Ramos were on the mound conference, no infielders, no joking with the umps. Cat was mad and Storen knew it. Storen had to look up at him–is McCatty taller or did he just position himself on the mound to seem taller? I went back and looked at the inning. For strike 2, Storen threw Gomez a great slider, it "slid" right across the plate and Gomez looked foolish. But then he tried it again, on a day when the fastball WAS working and WAS sinking. The slider stayed over the plate and–obviously–didn't fool Gomez. Was it the pitch selection or the execution?

  7. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:21 PM

    jeffwx, this was my reply in the previous post. It was frustrating for fans last year, but I could see the reasoning behind Davey "teaching" certain players, having patience. Time's up, now. For whatever reason, bad luck, bad timing, injuries, the Nats are at .500 at the half-way point. The talent is there, and, actually, so is the "experience." Be tough, Davey, and devil-take-the-hindmost. I'm fine with Haren coming back. But if July is like June, he goes away and Rizzo buys something at the deadline. If Drew Storen doesn't fix himself (or he's still injured), down he goes, bring up Garcia. Chad Tracy–thanks for the memories, etc., etc. Hunt around the rosters of the non-contending teams (including the AAA rosters where veteran guys are stashed) for some RH basher and send Moore back down until September. Keep Bernie and Lombo for their defensive skills and occasional offense–they are both capable of "waking up."

  8. jeffwx - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:22 PM

    It appeared the slider wasn't working consistently yesterday. maybe that's why tyler was warming up ?

  9. jeffwx - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:29 PM

    NL, I've also been frustrated by Davey's penchant to find an opportunity to either train or test a player for further evaluation. It's a good idea but in a close game, the hook should be close too.With 77 games left, I agree the team has to go for the kill now…like moving Werth down in the order yesterday (although 6th is still a good place to hit on this team), getting a backup rh hitter who can play the outfield and moving someone else. Good move for everyone.Should be an interesting July.

  10. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:35 PM

    I think Werth specifically asked to be moved down. He's playing through that groin thing and doesn't want to be "table-setting." Davey refused his request, but then made the switch. Werth and McCatty should just manage this team.

  11. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:39 PM

    Good writing NatsLady. I can't be fine with Haren because it was clear of all the choices Rizzo had he chose Haren. Lohse was there for the taking and several others. Once Rizzo was prepared to spend $13 million it created for this team the expectations which hasn't been met.Don't we know how this story goes? Haren gets to pitch against the Phillies next week and will ______________________!

  12. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:53 PM

    The problem is not Haren, it's Haren AND Detwiler. You could work around one of your 4-5 guys not carrying his load–bring up AA guys, spot starts, use long reliever, trade, etc. But when two guys are underperforming, it puts a lot of pressure on the team.

  13. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 2:57 PM

    On Drew Storen, yesterday was a matter of his pitches being middle of the plate. The question goes to why he wasn't yanked right away.http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=519322&game=gid_2013_07_04_milmlb_wasmlb_1&batterX=&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=.gif

  14. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:03 PM

    NL, Detwiler was better his last start. He was a victim of run support and a costly defensive error.I'm just hopeful he isn't having hip problems again.

  15. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:43 PM

    Don't agree. Game scores for June, 45, 46, 17, 47, 46. It wasn't a "costly" fielding error, no moreso than if he'd walked the leadoff batter or the guy had bunted for a single. Harper didn't cause him to give up a single and a triple after than. And he'd already gotten into and out of a jam in the 5th. He gives you three or four good innings and then he gets tired or whatever.

  16. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:44 PM

    *after that

  17. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:45 PM

    NatsLady – I am not sure where it went but I wrote earlier in the morning about how I liked your thoughts from 10:21.I asked, if Haren gives us two good starts followed by one clunker, will Davey or Rizzo stay with him. I think Ghost kinda answered it but I am not sure. You further clarified with the Detwiler post.While Tracy and Moore are both good teammates, I agree completely that one needs to go and the other needs to head back to the minors and just play.My other question is how will Davey use Storen in the next couple games? Will he continue to place him in important situations or try and ease him back in a blow out? How do you know a pitcher has figured it out until its an actual pressure situation?Go Nats!

  18. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM

    sjm–I don't think Rizzo can afford two unreliable starters in the scenario you describe. Even if Haren give three above average starts I think he has to go into the trade market. Jordan is fine, but innings-limited. Karns is not ready. You basically need to bridge the month of August, then you can bring Karns up again and maybe one of the other AA or AAA guys if they do well. And that's assuming Gio/Stras/JZ stay 100% healthy…

  19. mick - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM

    I really think Davey should give Jordan the 5th spot and move Haren to long relief, just my opinion

  20. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM

    Ghost, you still haven't addressed the two sticking points on Lohse — yes, he was there for taking but he wanted a multi-year contract, and he would have cost a draft pick. If he had been willing to take Haren's contract and Rizzo had chosen Haren, that would be a different story. But he wasn't. I'm with you though that Haren should have a very short leash. Now that Jordan has shown he can go more than 4 innings, if Haren has one more bad outing, particularly if his first outing is bad, I say bite the bullet and let him go. We can't afford any more blowups by starters. We just can't.NL, it won't surprise you to know that I am totally with you on managing to win every game, and the feelings of our sensitive relievers be darned. I think one of Davey's weaknesses is not recognizing until it's too late that a reliever "doesn't have it" or not acting quickly enough if he does recognize it. That weakness (though some call it having confidence in the reliever) has come back to bite us again and again.

  21. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:51 PM

    NatsLady, I'm not a Detwiler apologist. This start was better than his previous few starts. Something to work on.Det started off April looking great. Clearly his health is a problem.

  22. mick - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:51 PM

    I remember Ghost talking up Lohse last winter…he would have been perfect

  23. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM

    Re: Storen–I'm just glad it's not my job! (1) Storen needs to be 100% honest if he is feeling ANY injury at all. If he is, just go on the DL and work back to complete health.(2) If he's healthy, then you have to look at pitch selection vs. execution. Which is it? If it's pitch selection, then you sit him down with Ramos/Suzuki and say, "follow the catcher." If you can't get your slider to work, then have a pre-decided fallback plan. Can you rely on the change-up or not?(3) If he's healthy and the pitch selection/sequences are what they need to be, then you go back to "is it mental"? Why can he execute one perfect slider and not repeat? If he is distracted by a personal issue, by Soriano being the closer, by comparisons with Clippard, whatever, he needs to LEAVE IT AT THE DOOR. Because if he doesn't he will get traded or demoted. Maybe he wants a trade–if he does, then, do it.

  24. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM

    222, we had all said that if you were to give up Draft picks this was the year to do it. None of us know if Lohse would have accepted a 2 year deal or a 1 year deal but his 3 year $33 mill deal seemed fair enough.

  25. mick - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM

    "every thing, every thing goin be all right this morning" listening too Muddy Waterslol

  26. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:58 PM

    Mujica was 100% on saves this year. Last night, he didn't follow Yadi on two pitches. One of those pitches tied the game, the other lost it.http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/05/edward-mujica-on-first-blown-save-i-didnt-follow-yadi-and-thats-a-mistake/

  27. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 3:58 PM

    mick said… I remember Ghost talking up Lohse last winter…he would have been perfect July 05, 2013 11:51 AM Thanks. I was actually looking at him in August. I knew Boras wanted him to walk and test Free Agency.How nice would it have been to have him as a #4 pitcher on this team for a few years. Many thought he wasn't a Rizzo type pitcher being a finesse guy but then Rizzo signs Haren who is a finesse guy.

  28. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:00 PM

    Bottom line, to me, is that Storen has not established credibility to override Ramos/Suzuki/McCatty who have been watching the hitters the entire game and series. (Of course, Storen should have been, also).

  29. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:03 PM

    I don't think it was the draft pick, I think it was the years. Rizzo sees Stras/Gio/JZ and Detwiler as his first four. He didn't want to fill up the fifth slot for three years and block whoever is coming next. I think he likes the flexibility of a one-year deal in that fifth slot. I bet he re-thinks that this winter.

  30. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:03 PM

    For the record, by signing Lohse they would have lost the 68th pick overall, with which they took Jake Johansen.From MLB Draft Tracker:6'06" 235lbs DOB: 01/23/91"Built like the prototypical Texas right-hander, Johansen is Dallas Baptist's Friday night starter. His results have been inconsistent this year and he has occasionally shied away from attacking hitters. Though he has a four-pitch arsenal, Johansen is still learning how to pitch. He is still more of a thrower and must improve his command of his low-90s fastball. Johansen also throws a curveball, changeup and slider, all of which need more development. Johansen may fit best in the bullpen as a professional, where his fastball would play up and he could concentrate on one off-speed pitch."

  31. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:03 PM

    mick said… I really think Davey should give Jordan the 5th spot and move Haren to long relief, just my opinionI started that chant yesterday but Rizzo doesn't have the ***** to do that. TJord's innings limit isn't a factor as that won't come into play until August and you can certainly look at a waiver claim then just like Rizzo did with Suzuki last year or go back to Karns or Ohlendorf.

  32. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:05 PM

    NatsLady, I agree about the pipeline but I had written last year it then gives Rizzo the opportunity to make some trades. Sec 3, you are correct.

  33. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:06 PM

    Lohse didn't sign with the Brewers until March 25. That's probably about when his asking price/years came down, six days before opening day. Rizzo couldn't wait that long. What was the plan B if he couldn't land a free agent 5th starter? Certainly not Karns or Jordan at the beginning of the season. He had to go for one of the guys who was available on a one year deal.You know I'm not a Rizzo apologist, but it just seems unreasonable to criticize him for not signing Lohse. With the arms we have in the pipeline, but not ready this year, you would have villified him if he gave a four or five year contract to a 34 year old starter.

  34. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM

    Sec 3, you are correct. Yes, I know.

  35. TexNat - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM

    All,I'm planning on heading to the game tomorrow with my young nephew. Can anyone provide any guidance to this out-of-towner as to which sections would be in the shade for a 4pm game?

  36. NCNatsie - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:07 PM

    Anotheer factor in not going after Lohse may be that Nats top management may not want any more Boras clients. I wouldn't. Gives him too much control over my business.

  37. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:09 PM

    Ghost, as I said, I feel Rizzo will rethink that strategy this winter. Last year was a perfect confluence, starters 100% healthy all season Lannan stashed in Syracuse. This year is much more typical, with starters' health and performance an issue. Nats were the "perfect" team on paper at the end of spring training, but warning signs were there–no depth in starters and only Rendon close to ready for position players. That was noted by a few pundits (I don't mean here, I mean outsiders).

  38. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:10 PM

    Texnat, the sun will be behind home plate and moving across toward the third base side, so avoid the outfield and lower bowl. I like the 300's behind home plate, myself.

  39. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:10 PM

    TexNat–sit on the third base side. Stay away from center field or the first base side, those areas are in the sun all afternoon.

  40. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:11 PM

    Mick – no way will Haren go to the bullpen – he will either start or they will have to bite the bullet and trade/release him. Its just not that easy for a guy who has started for over 12 years to adjust to something like that. People were crying for Livo to do the same thing and he never was able to adjust. My crazy idea is throw Haren for 4 innings. No more even if he is on a roll. How often have we seen him breeze through the lineup the first time and then all of a sudden fall apart. I also realize he has had some issues early but I think more issues come after the 4th inning or so. In the 5th inning you bring in Taylor Jordan who knows he is coming in and can prepare just like he is starting. This keeps Jordan's innings limit under decent control and saves our bullpen. I absolutely understand this won't be done but that is why its great to be a baseball fan in that you can make crazy suggestions like this.After you get through Muddy Waters, try and little Mississippi John Hurt, or Howlin WolfGo Nats!!

  41. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:12 PM

    TexNat – we up in 308 just love that it is in the shade even for a 1pm start. I had season tickets in the first year in the left field bleachers and it was basically unbearable. Come on up to 308, always room for a couple more!!

  42. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:13 PM

    Sec 3 – what is the sun like on your sofa?? Is there a bad seat?

  43. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM

    NCNatsie, not to be a pest, but how are you doing with that Nats Anthem? Or did I miss you posting it? If you aren't able to get to it, can you send me a raw file, just to look at, even if unedited?

  44. TexNat - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:16 PM

    Thanks to all for the quick responses!

  45. Bigfish - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:19 PM

    TexNat, the seats in levels 3 & 4 from home plate up along the third base line are generally the shadiest. I don't have a stadium diagram in front of me, but I think it's Sections 301 to about 309.

  46. A DC Wonk - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:22 PM

    Dad proud of Wonkling:My daughter, the Wonkling, is in Texas for the summer (she got a gig as a summer camp counselor). Yesterday she asked me to text her updates of the game.Here is a screen capture of the last part. (She's on the left, I'm on the right).Her last line made me proud ;-)http://s18.postimg.org/z2rl1qz6h/wonkling.jpg

  47. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM

    sjm, it's over my left shoulder for afternoon 4pm starts like tomorrow. : )BTW, a good way to get a sense of where the sun will be is to go back in the historical imagery in Google Earth. This time of year, in the late afternoons (4 o'clock start tomorrow), the best shade is upstairs, 300-400 sections, from the cutout about even with first base to behind home plate (those seats face north, therefore the sun in behind you. The sun in high enough in July to get to the 100-200 seats regardless, but as it sets (about 8:35 tomorrow), the shady parts will extend as the sun gets lower in the horizon, behind the third base side seats (which face east, sunset at their backs).Hope that helps.

  48. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:23 PM

    I remember Ghost talking up Lohse last winter.I remember that too. I also remember he thought Rizzo would sign Lohse, but was pretty happy with the Haren signing, saying that it was a low risk, high impact move, and that Haren could pitch like a #2 and would bring a true veteran presence to the rotation. He even wished there was an $20 million option for a second year. He was also happy, as I think most of us were, that Rizzo didn't wait around for "the dominos to fall" but instead went out and got the guy he wanted.Look, Haren didn't work out. That's pretty clear, although we all hope that the phantom injury and the magic cortisone shot transform him into at least an Edwin Jackson level innings eater. But it wasn't a terrible move by Rizzo when it was made in December of last year. Lots of folks here, and around baseball thought it potentially gave the Nats the best rotation in baseball. If only…

  49. NCNatsie - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:25 PM

    You could never be a pest, NL. I think I've finallhy got the problems solved and have a date set with an editor for two weeks from today. I've been feeling terrible because you and the others were so great to give up your time and talent to the project, and did such a wonderful job. I sort of feel like I've let the team down. Just give me one more chance, coach, I know I can come through.

  50. mick - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:25 PM

    love them both, thanks coach!your idea with Haren is not a bad one and maybe that is the thinking when he returns

  51. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:26 PM

    *is, not in, in a couple of places there.

  52. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM

    To be honest, I actually didn't remember all the things that my friend Ghost said after Haren signed, I looked it up. In the course of that review, I also found this choice comment from a certain poster:"Probably not what Rizzo originally wanted but the Nats aren't going to trade Espinosa for anything less than sub-30 year old lefty Cy guy David Price. Shields would not be worth it."Sorry for the pun, but that is Priceless.

  53. mick - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM

    love it Wonk!!

  54. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:28 PM

    NCNatsie, you have until the trading deadline. :-)

  55. d'grviii 8 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM

    " Can anyone provide any guidance to this out-of-towner as to which sections would be in the shade for a 4pm game?"Third base side, upper deck or club deck. Or in the rear portion of the third base side in the lower deck. The third base stands are basically parallel to S. Capitol St., which runs north-south. Thus the sun setting in the west is directly behind the third base side of the stadium.

  56. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:34 PM

    Does anyone know how long Garcia has for his rehab. He pitched an inning on Jun 8. I believe pitchers have 30 days, but I don't know if that applies on the 60 day DL.

  57. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:36 PM

    Lohse is having a nice year, certainly. This guy was probably available, for one year, and for a whole lot less:11-3, 2.78 ERA, 113.1 Inn/17 starts, ERA+ 140, WHIP 1.103, 9:1 K:BB

  58. NatsLady - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:39 PM

    Yeah, I don't think RIzzo wanted him. Trouble enough with Gio.

  59. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:42 PM

    Would have been a nice irony, though, to have him succeed here, on the relative cheap.

  60. Sec. 3, My Sofa - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:44 PM

    Checking stubhub for tomorrow, there are seats, but not tons of them, in the 300s, more or less behind home.

  61. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

    Thanks Mick but it honestly has 0% chance of them even thinking about it. Way too outside the box.I agree that Haren, right now, is not what we wanted or thought he would be. But I do appreciate that it is just one year. I also feel strongly that Rizzo will not have to enter the free agent market next year for that 5th starter. It looks like he once again has drafter well in the last few years and we have ample starters in the minors that can fill that roll. The other good thing about having that young talent is that like the Orioles (I really do not like the O's) we can move them up and down if they are not working out. Karns, Jordan, maybe Rosenbaum, Purke, and I am sure Drew can give us a couple more out there. Of course another key is that Detwiler figures stuff out and can be that solid #4 as well.

  62. UnkyD - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:17 PM

    Damn, Mick!!! I have that one, too!!! "Mannish Boy!" I saw Muddy open for Clapton, back in '79, at Cap Ctr…. That ol man was a badass….

  63. UnkyD - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:22 PM

    And, sjm308….. Speaking of Wolf… I had the honor to chat with and shake the hand of Hubert Sumlin, HWs longtime guitarist (played a bit with Muddy, as well…) at a benefit we helped host, about 3years ago…. Quite a Gentleman, R.I.P…

  64. Section 222 - Jul 5, 2013 at 5:40 PM

    Oh Sofa, that's funny. Can you imagine the outcry here if Rizzo had signed him in December and said, "here's our 5th starter"? Oh, the humanity! Just goes to show you can never predict baseball.By the way, the same poster who thought Espi should be traded only for David Price liked the Haren acquisition, but predicted he would pitch less than 150 innings. That prediction isn't looking so bad right now (he's at 82 so far).

  65. sjm308 - Jul 5, 2013 at 6:24 PM

    UnkydI saw Hubert play with the nighthawks! I think he recently passed.

  66. Unknown - Jul 5, 2013 at 8:28 PM

    Ah, Vida Blue. There's a name from the past.Went to Opening Day '71 expecting to see Denny Mclain pitch the game (we bought tickets not too long after the trade) but ol' Bob Short pitched Dick Bosman and garnered another good crowd when he pitched against the White Sox a few days later.Against a great Vida Blue, the Seantors won 8-0 on eight hits. I think that was the year he won the Cy Young.

  67. mick - Jul 5, 2013 at 9:04 PM

    unk and coach…very cool!!!

Archives

NL EAST STANDINGS

W L GB
WASHINGTON 56 44 --
ATLANTA 55 48 2.5
MIAMI 49 53 8.0
NEW YORK 49 54 8.5
PHILADELPHIA 45 58 12.5
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SAT: Nats at Reds, 4:05 p.m.
SUN: Nats at Reds, 1:10 p.m.
MON: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
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WED: Nats at Marlins, 12:40 p.m.
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