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Game 93: Nats at Marlins

Jul 12, 2013, 8:01 PM EDT

USA Today Sports Images

Here's the situation the Nationals have put themselves in: After dropping three of four in Philadelphia, they now have to take two of three in Miami or else go into the All-Star break one game over the .500 mark (at best). Considering they were four games over at the start of the week, that would be a significant disappoint.

The Nationals have no one to blame but themselves for this predicament, and they better be careful not to overlook the Marlins, who may own the NL's worst record but who have been playing much better baseball of late. Did you know Miami is 20-16 since May 31, tops in the NL East? (The Nats, if you're wondering, are 20-18 since then.)

The good news: Stephen Strasburg is on the mound for his final start of the first half, and he's facing his favorite opponent. In 10 career starts against the Marlins, Strasburg is 5-2 with a 2.77 ERA, including a dominating performance against them this year on Opening Day.

I'm not in Miami this weekend, taking a couple of days off before heading up to New York for the All-Star festivities. Please enjoy the conversation as always here…

WASHINGTON NATIONALS at MIAMI MARLINS
Where: Marlins Park
Gametime: 7:10 p.m. EDT
TV: MASN2, MLB.tv
Radio: WJFK (106.7 FM), WFED (1500), XM 185
Weather: Indoors

NATIONALS (47-45)
CF Denard Span
SS Ian Desmond
LF Bryce Harper
3B Ryan Zimmerman

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447 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:48 AM

    Indeed

  2. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:48 AM

    The shutdown was stupid and I am not afraid to say it. I said it last year, but groupthink usually shouted down anyone who had a different opinion. There was no reason he should not have been available for relief work, even it it was only as a decoy. Instead, we just showed our hand and shut him down after a couple of bad starts, which is what he has just had this year.

  3. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:48 AM

    Rendon has been a joy to watch since he came back up…

  4. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM

    Span needs patience.

  5. jeffwx - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM

    The team is jinxed. you can't hit when the pitcher is on, you hit when the pitcher is off.It's bad karma, the curse of the Beast. You gotta believe. and stop singing his song at the park…it will only make things worse.

  6. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:49 AM

    It looks like both teams have stopped playing and are just trying to get this one over quick to make up for the long first inning.

  7. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:50 AM

    I am trying so hard to be positive…this is really tough

  8. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:51 AM

    Not hitting the ball well is not jinxed. It is bad hitting.

  9. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:51 AM

    rock bottom.

  10. JaneB - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:51 AM

    But thank you for trying Mick. Seriously. We all need to keep trying. Negativity doesn't help them a whit.

  11. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:52 AM

    Outside of the first inning…. Every single Nat, with the exception of Ramos, has had poor/dumb at bats…

  12. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:53 AM

    Interesting. Did you hear what FP just said? Harper asked Davey to let him leadoff. That would be interesting.

  13. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:54 AM

    Jeff the team isn't Jinxed. They Stink. And Davey cant get his tired Butt outta here quick enough. A lot of animosity in that dugout. you can see it. Rizzo and Davey ruined this team.

  14. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:55 AM

    Nats need to be over 500 at break and 6 or less back of Braves from a psychological standpoint…if they fall under 500, I do not know how a team recovers from it?

  15. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:56 AM

    I'm amused by the number of people on here who are convinced they know the atmosphere is in the dugout or clubhouse. None of us know anything. All we know is what's been reported and that's been that the clubhouse is still positive.

  16. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:56 AM

    MICK!!!!!! CMON man 90 plus games is a good enough sample size. They Stink. ITS OVER> AND YES I WILL STILL WATCH AND BE NEGATIVE>

  17. karlkolchak - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:57 AM

    Big Cat – who are these "prospects" you are referring to? We've already seen every minor league position player who is even close to MLB ready, and other than Rendon they all stunk the joint out. The lack of position player talent in the minors turned out to be a HUGE liability this year–and will be for several years to come as other than Brian Goodwin the cupboard is quite bare for non-pitchers above the Low A minor league level.

  18. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:57 AM

    Wasian….one has to wonder if a major move will be made at break involving Davey either stepping down or retiring? I think it is a fair question and not a LOD response

  19. jeffwx - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:58 AM

    It feels like alternative universe blog…Stras not very good..don't see anything special like an 89 mph hook.. even though he has one of the best whips/era before tonights start.This is like saying Nolan Ryan is overrated…Madness rules

  20. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:58 AM

    There is NO CHANCE of Davey stepping down early. I can promise you that. Not until this team is out of it. We are 4 games out of a playoff spot right now, folks.

  21. karlkolchak - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:59 AM

    David Proctor – yeah, because we all know how "probing" those silly clubhouse interviews are.

  22. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 12:59 AM

    David…that may be true, but apparently and most importantly, it appears that the coaching staff may not have a feel for their team?I honestly do no know, but I can tell you, I did not expect this tonight

  23. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:01 AM

    I guarantee you Mark and co. may not know everything, but they know more than you, me, or anyone else on here. And I suspect they know much more than they report as a lot of things are said "off the record."

  24. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:05 AM

    in history of baseball from 1901 to 2013, there have been two pitchers with 360 or less IP in their first four seasons and have more than 400 strikeouts. one is stephen strasburg and the other is — better believe this one — rob dibble.

  25. Ghost Of Steve M. - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:05 AM

    Comeback time!

  26. jeffwx - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:06 AM

    curse of the beast

  27. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:07 AM

    I think Davey has lost the team. I think they think hes lost it. Hes gone after this season. Just go early. Please

  28. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:07 AM

    Mark in this blog says Nats must win 2 of 3 verse Marlins…I think conventional wisdom was tonight was a win with Stras..with that apparently not the case, it means both Haren and Jordan have to step up

  29. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:08 AM

    Players love Davey everywhere he goes. There is absolutely no reason to think that that Davey has lost the team. None.

  30. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:09 AM

    JeffWx apparently you have never bothered to nose around any stats sites. They all say that Nolan Ryan was overrated. Bill James said he was closer to average than to Tom Seaver. Go do some research and then report back when you have some data and not just your man-crush on Nolan Ryan's speed.

  31. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:09 AM

    Wasian…I remember in 2003 the Marlins had a coaching change mid season and got the World Series, of course Steve Bartman helped out with that, lol

  32. jeffwx - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:10 AM

    WODL, I think you've gone AWOL.

  33. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:11 AM

    What is lost tonight in Strasbourg pitching like Rudy Stine oaths fact that once again minus the first inking is that the hitting once again stinks.

  34. jeffwx - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:11 AM

    from the history of the metsOnce out of the glaring New York spotlight, Ryan became one of the best pitchers in history, spending 22 more years in the majors and entering the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1999 as a Texas Ranger. Fregosi battled injuries and played just 146 games for the Mets over a season and a half. Meanwhile Otis became a star with the Kansas City Royals while Foy lasted only one season in New York.

  35. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:11 AM

    So many of the homers on here were predicting a sweep of the easy Marlins. Anytime anyone predicts a sweep in baseball, ask them how much they laid down on it. It is virtually never a more probable than not event in MLB. The Marlins took 3 of 6 against the Braves over two weeks.

  36. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:13 AM

    Oh my god, does anyone else hear this obnoxious whistle sound?

  37. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:15 AM

    William O. Douglas Loeffler very trueand if Marlins win this series and the fact the Nats lost 3 of 4 to Phillies with the full lineup back, what does it tell one about the state of this team? I am not bashing them, I think they are giving 100%, I am starting to believe they are only the third best team in the division and a slight rebuilding of this team has to begin in 2014. I will take a 500 team over a 100 loss team, I have told myself that. That is what Nats are 500, not a bad team but not a good team

  38. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:15 AM

    So David on a serious note give me the short version of what is wrong with the team. Please

  39. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:16 AM

    That is not data, Jeffwx. That is an excerpt from some Mets' thing. Ryan's reputation was largely built on longevity, not brilliance, and it was also built on pitching to an old age. He is more Hoyt Wilhem than Tom Seaver and no one that I know would put him in the same breath as guys like Tom Seaver. When I hear ignorant Mets fans saying that he was the best pitcher to ever spend time on the Mets roster, it makes me wonder what sorts of fans the Mets actually have, because nobody with an I.Q. over 60 thinks he was close to Tom Seaver, either as a pitcher, or as a human being….

  40. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:16 AM

    @WODL: Yeah, we're homers here. This is a Nats fans chat room. You were expecting, what?And for the record, I STILL think we're going to sweep these bums.

  41. jeffwx - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:18 AM

    Tell that to Steve McCatty, he picked him for his century team….Do you suppose you know more about pitching than McCatty ? Maybe you do ?

  42. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:19 AM

    Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Methat means Haren and Jordan pitch their best games of the season…what is honestly the likelihood of that? maybe Jordan does and maybe Nats can score 10 runs when haren pitches…I suppose its possible

  43. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:19 AM

    Yes David I heard to turn down the sound. Somebody smack that person. Should have started ohlie

  44. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:20 AM

    Well the good news with Haren is that it's hard to hit a home run in this park. I guess that's…something?

  45. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:21 AM

    there you go David… very true

  46. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:24 AM

    Do you know what overrated means, Jeff? It means people think someone or something is better than it is. Ryan is a fringe Hall of Famer in most people's estimation. He had a career similar in effectiveness to Bert Blyleven and Jack Morris, although they were much better in the post-season. I frankly value Bill James' opinion much more than Steve McCatty's, to the extent that Steve McCatty said something different. Nobody who grew up watching Nolan Rylan thinks he is a Sandy Koufax caliber pitcher. Nobody. And if Steve McCatty does, then maybe he needs to go find a profession he knows something about.Repeat after me. You can't walk more than 1,000 batters more than anyone in baseball history and be 2nd in wild pitches and be an elite pitcher like Sandy Koufax or Tom Seaver.

  47. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:24 AM

    go Reds keep this at 6, please

  48. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:25 AM

    then the Res would be 5 up in wild card…. I guess I should root for reds

  49. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:26 AM

    Yay Span finally gets a hit. It's the small victories at this point.

  50. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:26 AM

    Span with a clutch hit!

  51. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:26 AM

    is there any word on Stras??

  52. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:28 AM

    Bernadina my goodness man. Hahahahahaha. Just futile. Ive gone mad. I'm actually laughing now. Maybe its to keep from crying. Did Carp just say Hats one swing away from changing this game? Hahahaha. Oh man I'm going to watch risky business hahahA

  53. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:29 AM

    I think this was like the game Detwiler had a few Sundays back where the ump wouldn't give him his strike.

  54. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:29 AM

    if Stras is not hurt then I am baffled

  55. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:30 AM

    mick, yea, stras was last seen at the hotel bar getting hammered watching the game on TV.

  56. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:31 AM

    I'm sorry folks but to hear Carp and FpP act like there hope is just humorous to me.

  57. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:31 AM

    Orebdorf so far the only positive.Actually hitters were positive in the first. In tge second and third we could have score as the pitcher was still throwing balls, but we preferred to swing then take a ball.

  58. jeffwx - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM

    Just tell me WODL, would you consider yourself a better judge of pitching talent than Steve McCatty ?Question 2, Do you think you are a former and deceased Supreme court justice ?

  59. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM

    Do they really take a shower and leave?

  60. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:32 AM

    if Stras let the ump get to him…that is on Stras and shame on him…look at Gio the other night, he should maturity and poise and pitched like champ in site of the umpire..I thought Stras had grown up?champions do not let bad umpires lose a game or affect their mind set…

  61. sjm308 - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:33 AM

    Hi everyone – I rarely do this but just came on to trash the masn Sunshine Bobby. Bad enough we are playing poorly but I have to listen to such brilliance like "Dunn warming in the pen to probably face LaRoche". Of course FP jumps in to remind him that duh. Harper is also a lefty.

  62. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:34 AM

    paul lol

  63. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:34 AM

    If the clubhouse and dugout is positive great, but the field says more than anything else.

  64. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:35 AM

    Wow. Harper got that.

  65. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:36 AM

    Harper crushed it…what a silly set up of a stadium…anywhere else it's a HR and same with Zim's to right field earlier, oh well.

  66. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:36 AM

    Loud outs excite me…

  67. Scott Margenau - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:36 AM

    Damn it.

  68. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:37 AM

    That's a home run anywhere except there and Houston. That was well over 400 feet.

  69. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:37 AM

    You cant get a homer to center.Best contact since he came back, but anywhere but center.However he hit it where it was pitch so I am not mad. Most hitters been swinging weakly since tge first. That though was good.

  70. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:37 AM

    FP and Bobby…stop…bottom line is it is an out, I do not care about other ball parks…it stays 7-3

  71. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:38 AM

    Frickin hate that ball park…

  72. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:40 AM

    That is such a stupid question, Jeffwx. First of all, I don't care what Steve McCatty's opinion is, particularly. He is one pitching coach among hundreds in professional baseball in the U.S. I can only hope that he doesn't espouse ignorant opinions regarding Hall of Famers. Nobody thinks he was close to the top among pitchers. If you disagree, then do some research and write a book or an article. Maybe you can get McCatty to help you.I also never said a word about Ryan's pitching talent. I only said that he was a fringe Hall of Famer. I agree that he had huge talent and wasted a great deal of it. If you aren't going to bother to read what I write, then I am just going to assume that you are bored. Go look at Ryan's stats and see if you can figure out how to argue that he was equal to Seaver, Johnson or Koufax in terms of what he accomplished. I recently saw an interesting article on this on Posnanski's blog and Ryan consistently came up short in everything except for longevity.

  73. Depot Master - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:40 AM

    Even if you are happy to see upton out, this means another guy that hits better will likely take his place.

  74. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:40 AM

    is Ohlendorf out of options? FP saying if he's not on our roster he may very well be on another MLB roster…not sure what he meant??

  75. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:40 AM

    Yeah MnF and DP – I thought he had it… I started slowly rising out of my chair watching… Lol… But it was a good swing…

  76. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:41 AM

    I thought you said no comments until September. Do I misrember this 2 nights you came after you said you wouldn't

  77. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:41 AM

    THE WHISTLING IS BACK. GOD.

  78. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:43 AM

    The worst, i.e., stupidest thing a pitcher can do in the Marlins' Park is to come in an walk everybody. So either the ump had a bad strike zone in the first that magically went away for both pitchers as the ump settled down, or Strasburg pitched a stupid game, or Strasburg is having real control problems now. I am not sure which it is.

  79. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:43 AM

    from 1921 to 2013, no pitcher has pitched fewer innings than SS and got more WAR than he has done as a full time starter (according to BBref). 7.8 in 357 innings.Alexi Ogondo has 8.4 in 332 innings but many of the games he appeared in are as a reliever.

  80. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:45 AM

    Bad break for Abad there. Should be an unearned run.

  81. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:45 AM

    If I am right, Abad has given up at least 1 run in his last 3 appearances.

  82. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:45 AM

    So you are saying that Stras is very good but terribly injury-prone? I think we all buy that.

  83. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:46 AM

    DP, Charlie & Dave were commenting on it via the radio and sounded none too pleased with the whistling…at one point one of them said, what's the point of whistling? am sure its much more annoying for them, they can't turn down the volume.

  84. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:47 AM

    terribly injury-prone? he has missed that one year due to TJ and couple of weeks this season. that's it. injury-prone pitchers tend to miss more than that.

  85. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:47 AM

    are the Marlins really 33-57?

  86. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:48 AM

    Lets score some runs. Hit like you did in the first ,(actually 2 walks then)

  87. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:49 AM

    You are wrong. Abad gave up a run on Jul 8. The last time he gave up a run before that was Jun 17.

  88. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:49 AM

    One of the main differences this year is the poor performance of the bench. Tyler Moore apparently has the worst WAR in the majors. Bernadina has been horrible. Lombardozzi has been horrible. Tracy has been horrible except for the homers. Suzuki has been terrible offensively. Tonight has been one of the worst games of the entire season.

  89. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:49 AM

    that was a dumb play by Rendon, he had plenty of time to get the runner but he will learn from it…would rather he do it down 4 runs than down 1 but it was not a hit.

  90. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:50 AM

    So what does this make us, like 12 of the last 23 or something? Where do we finish if we keep playing at that clip?

  91. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:50 AM

    William O. Douglas Loefflerwhat bothers me about Stras, is just when you think he has grown up… he acts like a 10 year old if calls do not go his way…that not only hurts his team, but I think his team mates get tired of it as well. I can not emphasize enough the contrast between Gio and Stras

  92. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:50 AM

    Are we the only team that get a crappy Cuban? Every other Cuban seems to be a stud.

  93. sjm308 - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:51 AM

    Mick – as I leave here tonight, I just want to say that you have done an amazing job at staying calm. Hang in my friend and tomorrow will be another day. I will now switch to Charlie and Dave in the hopes that we can have some sort of miracle finish. Very disappointing to say the least.

  94. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:53 AM

    NatsLady said…You are wrong. Abad gave up a run on Jul 8. The last time he gave up a run before that was Jun 17.are you only counting earned runs?

  95. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:53 AM

    How in the world did that ball stay in the park? This game should be tied or a 1 run game right now.

  96. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:53 AM

    Man laroche is lost up there. Disgusting loss tonight. Starsburg is a big baby. Needs to grow up. Seethe the only guy with testicles

  97. Faraz Shaikh - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:54 AM

    in all of baseball's history, only yu darvish is ahead of SS in k/9 as a full time starter in first four MLB seasons while pitching fewer than 360 innings. if I change restriction to minimum 355 innings, SS is ahead of guys like Wood and Prior but they both have more than 300 innings in their first four years.

  98. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:54 AM

    Now ALR shows patience and not swing in a 2 strike count on a ball in the middle.

  99. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:55 AM

    Unh… This ball park isn't playing fair for us…

  100. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:55 AM

    Faraz, they treat him like a prize racehorse. First of all, he missed several weeks last year. He went on the disabled list for a mystery thing this year, and they yank him way earlier than most pitchers. He has never pitched the nats through a tough outing where you have to go 8 innings and carry the team. He pitches his five or six or seven innings and that is that. Let's not recall the temper tantrum on the mound against the Cubs earlier this year where he seemed to be pulled for being pissed off at a teammate.I am frankly ready to see him take the next step and become a real pitcher, i.e., a guy who can actually complete a game in the majors. Maybe that will happen next year.

  101. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 1:59 AM

    Just bad control. Not hard to figure.

  102. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:00 AM

    All runs. Abad gave up a 1 run (earned) on Jul 8.Abad gave up 1 run (earned) on Jun 17.Abad game up 1 run (earned) on Jun14Abad gave up no runs at all from the time he was called up on May 17 until that first run on June 14. Prior to tonight, 16 innings, 3 runs, 2 walks, 19 strikeouts.http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=abadfe01&t=p&year=

  103. Secret wasian man - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:01 AM

    WERTh only guy with a pair

  104. William O. Douglas Loeffler - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:01 AM

    K's/9 mean more when a guy pitches some real innings. Most people would say that Strasburg has generally been fine except for the injury, but part of the problem with striking out 14 to start is that people wonder why you never did it again or really even have come close…. Lots in baseball is about perception. Is Stras better than Nolan Ryan so far? Of course, but people perceived Ryan to be much better than he was. Stras has not been exciting really since that first year, extremely competent, yes, but not exciting in the way that Valenzuela or Ryan excited people. Koufax did both things, as did Seaver, Feller and Gibson and Walter Johnson and that is why those guys are at the top.

  105. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:03 AM

    First two pitches to Ramos were the hittable pitches. One thing to take the first, no exuse to take the second.Again bad hitting approach. We need to clobber fast balls down the middle. Not take them.

  106. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:03 AM

    It's jet lag… Gotta be jet lag…

  107. sjm308 - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:05 AM

    One night its the ump – the next its the parkcould it honestly be that we are just not playing up to our ability?

  108. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:06 AM

    RISP us 1 for 8, them 3 for 7

  109. sjm308 - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:06 AM

    Mick – very very difficult to argue with NatsLady – she usually has the facts. Opinons are one thing but facts are right there in black and white. I think that run should have been unearned by the way but its what home cooking is all about.

  110. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:07 AM

    SS had very poor control of the ball and his emotions…he looks like a spoiled little 1st grader who didn't get his favorite flavor tootsie pop from the teacher after answering a tough question. He pouts, he does that silly stop and stare in to the ump if he doesn't get a close pitch and umps don't like it. It's getting old, grow up and throw strikes and pitch like you should pitch and have pitched. He's still an incredible talent, just think he needs to mature a bit more & have fun, smile, your a multi-millionaire playing a game for goodness sake.

  111. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:07 AM

    I mean…it's fact that Harper and Werth hit those as Home Runs in any other park except maybe Houston. Harper's hit is estimated at 410 feet away.

  112. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:09 AM

    Nats lady..ok you are only counting earned runs, that is fine. I look at unearned as well and I think a lot of fans do as well. I do not mean if a runner is on third with less than 2 outs and he gives up a sac fly, that is fine…i mean if bases are loaded and he comes in and gives up a homer , he is only charged 1 run and if a runner is on base and he gives up a hit and the run scores, that is not fine with me as well as a majority of fans and coachesneedless to say, Abad is the very least of the team's issues

  113. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:09 AM

    You can see why Harper has a baseball crush on Werth.

  114. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:10 AM

    No, mick, I am counting ALL runs.

  115. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:11 AM

    Question for Carp, who keeps Carping out how hard it is to hit a ball out of this amusement park?If it's that hard, how does Giancarlo Stanton do it so regularly?

  116. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:11 AM

    sjm…I am including unearned runs with Abad as well as any other reliever…go back and look at games in which he has given up a hit with men on and they score. the unearned stat is very deceptive

  117. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:12 AM

    even unearned?

  118. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:12 AM

    Keep the damn line moving

  119. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:13 AM

    For one, Stanton is one of the best power hitters of this generation. For two, his home runs are down so he doesn't do it "so regularly."Mick, she's including unearned runs.

  120. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:13 AM

    Abad has not given up any unearned runs. Period.Check the link I gave, it shows earned and unearned runs.

  121. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:13 AM

    am i confusing Stammen with abad?

  122. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:16 AM

    nats have KO'd 9 times? that is what Bobby C just said

  123. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:16 AM

    FP sez the Nats batters ought to change their game plan for the rest of the Marlins series.Nats hitters have a game plan?

  124. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:16 AM

    >am i confusing Stammen with abad?This is not a question I can answer with baseball reference.

  125. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:16 AM

    Got to love Span takes a third strike and Ian swings at 2 way outside to strike out.Hitting approach again.

  126. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:17 AM

    OK

  127. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:17 AM

    mick, yep 9 times and its the marlins…un-real.

  128. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:19 AM

    Well now we need Dan Haren to come up big. We were cursing the ballpark tonight. Tomorrow we may be thanking it.

  129. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:20 AM

    the break can't come soon enough…this team needs to have a knock down drag out team meeting and Davey and Rizzo need to get in some of this guys grills… it is time for tough love and that involves a kick in some asses..if a player can not respond to it, its time for that player to go

  130. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:21 AM

    paul what hurts is the marlins are a 33-57 team only 16,000 at park ona Friday night as wellthere are no words that can adequately express tonight

  131. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:22 AM

    Harper walks and Zim swings at first pitch.He barely tops it, so obiously not a hitters pitch.Tell me the hitting approach is not flawed.But obviously Davy and Eck dont mind.

  132. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:23 AM

    if Ray Knight was the manager…hee hee, i can only imagine how he would respond

  133. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:23 AM

    Eh, the Marlins beat Atlanta too, they didn't sweep. Stras didn't have it, that's all.

  134. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:24 AM

    mick, agree, bring in tortorella for a pep talk, this is getting real old, will still try and be positive but it really is just insane…my neck hurts from shaking my damn head left to right…its really puzzling but time to shake things up somehow, someway.

  135. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:25 AM

    David Proctor said… For one, Stanton is one of the best power hitters of this generation. For two, his home runs are down so he doesn't do it "so regularly."I think a more like reason his homers are down would have been that Stanton was hurt for about six weeks this season.

  136. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:26 AM

    MNF, not only does Davey not mind, he TOLD the hitters to swing more often at the first pitch. He said, the best way to time a pitcher is to swing. He said the hitters were "tracking" (taking) too many pitches. Fortunately, Werth doesn't listen to Davey, and Harper listens to/watches Werth.

  137. BigCat - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:26 AM

    It's time. Eck needs to go at the break

  138. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:27 AM

    I think Davey's approach is misunderstood. All Davey wants is for you to swing at the first pitch if it's a center-cut fastball. He doesn't say go out and always swing early. Just do it if the opportunity is there. Earlier in the season, we were taking strike 1 no matter what and falling behind. It was even worse.

  139. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:30 AM

    Eck is only doing what Davey wants. You can fire him, but the next guy won't be any better. I don't think Span got fooled on that pitch he took, but, not defending Stras, that was a call Stras was NOT getting in the first inning. Span would not have been able to get good wood on a pitch that far outside–if it's going to be a called strike there isn't much you can do.

  140. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:30 AM

    true nats lady…but Braves are on top of the division and Nats are trying to come back…that is not how a team trying to compete responds with their ace…I respect your opinion but please respect and understand the frustration when the entire line up is back, your ace is pitching, the team is coming off losing 3 of 4 to another division rival and they play with no sense of urgency there was nothing positive at all about tonight and this trend as several posters have stated is now over 90 games..it is not too early and the injury issue is now moot..either they are under achieving (I do not think they are) or they are just not that good (that is probably the case)as i said, i will take a 500 team over what we as fans went through with 100 plus losses back to back..its just very tough to accept this, but it is what it is

  141. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:31 AM

    They need some one kicking their butts. They aren't kicking their own butt.

  142. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:32 AM

    paul…I would pay top dollar to watch my boy John T get in some of these guys grills…that would be quite entertaining

  143. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:32 AM

    NL, well if Werth is not listening to Davey and neither is Harper since he is following Werth, that is not a real good reflection on their manager since they are essentially ignoring him, right? maybe a change is needed…

  144. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:33 AM

    I think the problem is they're kicking their own butts too much. I think if they'd relax, they'd play better. Just my opinion though. Hard for any of us to say.

  145. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:33 AM

    Werth has been Davey's biggest fan since day one.

  146. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:34 AM

    I saw pitches that werent center cut fastball being swung at 0-0 So his instructions are being ignored.Kick butts

  147. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:38 AM

    so bottom line. Nats only 1 over 500 with 2 to go before break. I will take just one win I cant believe i would actually be grateful if they win only won game to Marlins…who would have thunk it back in april?

  148. karlkolchak - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:38 AM

    mick – Right on, bro. And the main reason they are not that good is as I have cited before, a lack of depth. Sure, vets like LaRoche, Span, Espinoa and Zimmerman have not played up to expectations, and the injuries to Harper and Werth hurt, but what REALLY hurts is that the team has nothing…literally nothing (other than Rendon for Espinosa) to replace those guys with or even to give them a few more days off. Right now we have a team with only three starters it can rely upon and whose ace just blew up instead of being the stopper he is supposed to be, a lineup that takes whole games off and the very worst bench in baseball (thanks to that lack of depth). Yes, this is a .500 team.

  149. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:40 AM

    You and I agree 100% absolutely no urgency by enough players and this is the result.The Marlin starter was as wild as Stras, but we bailed him out by swinging at way too many pitches.We score 3 in the first and just fiddle after that.

  150. vinsan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:41 AM

    Stras has more tools than most…and less ability to overcome adversity. If everything doesn't go just dandy, he falls apart. And this, against the lowly Marlins. It's just possible that we caught fire last year against an NL East that was in transition and expectations for '13 grew to impossible heights. We simply may be just average this year.

  151. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:41 AM

    DP, how do you know that? You just said, none of us know what is going on in the clubhouse. P brandt, I don't think there will be a change, but I do see Rizzo being pretty firm about Davey retiring after this season. Davey hinted he might not retire–he will retire. Atlanta loses, we are still 6 back. I am a Dan Haren fan tomorrow.!

  152. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    Davey all but said team quit after tge first. Didnt use the word.Used the word wind came out of the baloon.i use that term for quit.

  153. Doc - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    I beat Stras to the showers tonight!

  154. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:44 AM

    thanks karl and mnfnatslady…I will be huge Haren fan tomorrow too

  155. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:45 AM

    NL, I'm just going by what's been said and reported. None of us know what's going on behind closed doors, but Werth has never been shy about his feelings. It was pretty obvious when he wanted Riggleman out.

  156. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:46 AM

    win the next two and all is well…wow, both uptons hurt in the braves game.

  157. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:46 AM

    That is on Davey, then, IMO. He has instilled an attitude of score first and hold the lead. What happens when that doesn't happen? Davey goes to his stats and figures the odds are against a win, and that's how he plays it. Before the game, Davey was talking about how important it was to score in the first inning in an away game. Well, that happened, to the tune of three runs. But when Stras wasn't Stras, then what?

  158. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:47 AM

    Al Davis said it best "Just win Baby."

  159. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:48 AM

    nats lady…excellent pointMnFlove itjust win baby!!!

  160. Unknown - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:49 AM

    This team stinks. .500 is their top best possible. Never would have thought so, but Nats need to be sellers not buyers the rest of this month, may I suggest Span, LaRoche and Suzuki? Maybe last year was a fluke after all.

  161. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:50 AM

    well at least SS said the right things in his brief interview…I have a good feeling about the next two…Davey is aging before our eyes. go Nats!

  162. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:52 AM

    Paul – what did SS say? I missed the dang interview…

  163. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:52 AM

    OH, I definitely agree Werth had no use for RIggleman. Absolutely.And I'm sure he supports Davey, especially in public, and especially in front of the rest of the team. But he (Werth) didn't want to hit in the 2-spot. Davey put him there anyway, then eventually moved Werth down to where he wanted to be. Their philosophies are SO different. Werth believes in patience, in wearing down the starter, in getting to the underbelly of a team's middle relievers by the 6th inning. Davey wants that early lead, with the confidence that the pitching can hold it. I'm not saying either is wrong, but they are very different.

  164. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:52 AM

    Why does nobody understand that you don't sell when you're 5 back? These runs DO happen and they do happen late. It's so stupid to throw in the towel. What a defeatist attitude.

  165. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:53 AM

    It depends NL. I think Werth and Davey are closer alike than you think. Werth will go first pitch ambush on a center-cut fastball. He's been known to do it. That's all Davey is asking. He's asking for someone to swing early if it's a good pitch to hit and take if it isn't. Werth knows how to do it. Other guys swing at garbage pitches. That's on the hitters, not Davey, imo.

  166. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:55 AM

    Actually DP – the Nats should be selling and buying… We need another SP given the shakiness of Haren and Det… We need another bat for the incompetent/underachieving good squad…We should be making some type of move but not at the cost of the farm, to which I don't think we have that much down there…Now I am not saying we are out… In fact, around 500 by the AS game isn't great but it isn't bad… We need to go on a serious run after the break.. Open a can of whoop asz and do the damn thing…

  167. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:56 AM

    I'm telling you, David, that comes straight from Davey–and it worked last year. Davey didn't mind "conceding" a loss when the team was behind, conserving energy, conserving the bullpen. He made a big deal about how he was playing for the season, for series wins, not for individual games.Unfortunately, we don't have that "luxury" this year. If 89 wins will take the DIvision (and the way Atlanta is playing that could happen), we can't AFFORD to "concede" games.

  168. mick - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:56 AM

    Unknown…may not be a bad idea… as pissed as I am about this team…they are not that far away of being a 90 plus win club in 014 and beyond….if they sell, they may have to give up a Clippard to get a young stud batter for 2014 and beyond…the problem is, these moves would be made before the new manager comes in 2014. whatever they sell, they need to get some bats for it and middle relief.I think they have their 4th and 5th staring pitches in their farm… I agree about ALR, Suzuki and yes Span. But, Clip may be the guy that could get them more bang for heir buck.Whatever they do, Rizzo (if he is the GM) needs to be careful. what is also clear is that their farm is very over rated i terms of offense…I regret to say, i think Tyler Moore will be out of the league in another 2-3 years, he is a nice young man who just can not hit

  169. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 2:58 AM

    No, the Nats should not be sellers. And Ross Ohlendorf just made the case (for me) that the Nats don't have to give up the farm for a starter. But Rizzo needs another lefty bat–Tracy ain't cutting it…

  170. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:00 AM

    Both philodophied are god depending on the game situation.

  171. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:00 AM

    That's fine NL, but it has nothing to do with the hitter's approach. Werth is not opposed to first pitch swinging, if it's the right pitch. In fact, Werth even said that his approach in the NLDS Game 4 at-bat was to swing at the first pitch. However, it was a low fastball and he didn't think he could do anything with it so he took it. The next one also locked him up. Then he knew he had to get it to 3-2 and foul balls off until he got his fastball. He got it, he hit it. That's what Davey wants. Be aggressive, but be smart. We're being more aggressive now, but we're not being smart about what pitches we're swinging at.

  172. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:01 AM

    mick, they are not trading Clip. Storen, maybe, he is young and under team control, you might get something for him. Clip is older, he is already making $4MM and he is not a closer (at least, not yet).

  173. Unknown - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:01 AM

    Proctor, you can't make gold out of dross. They make a run, who cares? It's just window dressing. This is an average team, not a top ten. Trade the vets, get younger and come back, with lower expectations and more humility, ready to fight. It is absolutely time to close the books on hopes for 2013. There ain't any!

  174. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:02 AM

    NL – I'm guessing Rizzo/DJ is scared that the RO with the 6+ ERA will show up sooner rather than later… To which we can't afford that… I don't see anything wrong with improving at all times…But this year is far from over although folks keep saying it is… But there are some things we need to address and do it now…

  175. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:03 AM

    We are all over thinking this as is tge team.Just play like you want it more than the opponent. That works more often then not. Number of stupid at bats or base runinning might go down.#JustWinBaby,#QuitThinkingJustDoIt

  176. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:03 AM

    Whatever Unknown. I'm sure the San Francisco Giants and St. Louis Cardinals said the same thing. Teams that go on runs late don't typically look good early on. That's why the run is needed. The talent on this team is still good. If you don't believe so, fine, but I do, and the team isn't going to sell.

  177. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:03 AM

    Storen, like Det, has a lot of potential and is young enough to correct his issues and can be dominate… I would hope we don't sell him…I don't see anyone we have that is really worth selling… So many are under performing…

  178. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:04 AM

    MrsB, I am learning, I will continue to learn, I will work hard, just didn't have it tonight, happens to all pitchers sooner or later.p.s. I had the volume down and was doing some work so wasn't paying 100% attention but I liked his manner-isms (not sure if that is a word??), quasi-smile, up-beat attitude, etc…more than I expected after 2 innings.

  179. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:04 AM

    Justin Upton got hurt too? So Heyward, BJ Upton and Justin Upton are all hurt? That's their entire outfield. Jeez.

  180. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:04 AM

    David, NO ONE is opposed to ambushing the pitcher on a fastball, IF you can recognize it. Look at the Onion, how he did that–don't you think Eck told him, go out there and swing at the first one… But if you have a philosophy of wearing down the starter then IN GENERAL you are not going first pitch hunting.

  181. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:06 AM

    Thanks Paul – I will say this… Our SPs should take note from Haren, who gives sound interviews after his losses… Doesn't make excuses or anything…Tonight SS was off.. Didnt help himself at all… Had the lead and just pooped on the field… I thought the SZ was moving and all over the place but it looked like SS was kinda all over the place…. It was a bad game for him… It happens… Hopefully he can use the break to rest, relax and get his self together for the next outting….

  182. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:07 AM

    I think the philisophy depends on the starter. Against a guy like today, we should be taking pitches etc. And we did that. We just didn't make him pay as much as we should have. Against a strike-thrower like Cliff Lee, you need to swing early. We did that. Both philosophies work if executed well. The problem is neither is being executed particularly well. I don't think that's on Davey.

  183. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:08 AM

    NL – I was wondering where you went….

  184. MrsB loves the Nats - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:09 AM

    Tonight, we needed more of the 1st inning Nats… But once SS came in and let it go, the Nats panicked and started swinging from the ankles… Not really identifying pitches, rushing the approach… Walks were available but we weren't taking them…

  185. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:11 AM

    DP, yea, Justin Upton pulled up running out a ground-ball, they called it a "strained calf" but he looked like he was hurting.

  186. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:12 AM

    I mean, the guys swung the bats well in general today. The runs aren't indicative. They drew walks, they got men on base. Harper hit a ball 410+ feet with 2 men on base. Werth hit one really far too. It's not an excuse…both teams played in the same park. But in any other park, we staged a big comeback. Just how baseball goes.

  187. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:15 AM

    My father told me someting in 1960 that I pull out everyonce in a while, and tomorrow I will execute the plan.My father said trying is the language of losers, doing is the language of winners.When you cant do it, you say you will try, if you can do it, you just do it.Tonorrow I will propel win by doing it.

  188. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:23 AM

    MrsB, came back over here. Actually, considering it was a loss, the atmosphere is not too toxic.

  189. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:25 AM

    anyone else see the Tim Timmons gaffe in the SF/SD game…hysterical!!!!happened in the 3rd inning…it will be all over MLB/ESPN tomorrow…Timmons even said "my bad" knowing he missed the call and was in the middle of the play…funny as sh*&!!

  190. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:26 AM

    Kershaw gave up two runs in the first inning. So far, he hasn't panicked. Our guy Nicasio hasn't given up anything. (I consider Nicasio "our guy" because of Desi.)

  191. NatsLady - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:29 AM

    paul b, didn't see it, am watching Col/LAD. Guess I'll see it tomorrow.

  192. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:30 AM

    so Chris Davis seems to be going out of his way to say he has never used PED's, etc…why is he going out of his way?? hope I am wrong, but didn't Lance do this exact same thing for years? I am not an O's hater or a Chris Davis hater and I really hope he is clean but not sure why he is becoming so "public."

  193. David Proctor - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:30 AM

    The Dodgers scare me. They're the first time we play after the break. Which means we'll get Kershaw and Greinke. Plus they're swinging the bats well.

  194. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:31 AM

    C.D. Buckner was knocked out of the BoSi@ A's game. He Bill Miller took over at home and took a hard shot but staying in so far.Need to check SD SF game

  195. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:35 AM

    NL, saw it on MLB and they keep re-playing it…don't want to ruin it for you, but Timmons got it_______?

  196. Sunshine_Bobby_Carpenter_Is_Too_Pessimistic_For_Me - Jul 12, 2013 at 11:35 PM

    David Proctor said… The Dodgers scare me.Maybe you, not me. They're a .500 team. Like us.

  197. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:38 AM

    After missing the call and then saying "My bad" Did he correct the call.To acknowledge the mistake is great, but to let it stand to me is insade abd poor officiating.If you made a mistake and you know to not fix it is stupid.

  198. paul brandt - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:42 AM

    MNF, it's complicated…you need to see the replay…you will agree with me after seeing it…I don't want to ruin it for you & NL.

  199. Manassas Nats' Fan - Jul 13, 2013 at 3:45 AM

    I have th giant game on now.Mlb network said nothing.Read the play by play and nothing looks unusual.Who was batting?

Archives

NL EAST STANDINGS

W L GB
WASHINGTON 55 44 --
ATLANTA 55 46 1.0
NEW YORK 48 53 8.0
MIAMI 47 52 8.5
PHILADELPHIA 43 57 12.5
Through Wednesday's games

UPCOMING SCHEDULE
THU: OFF
FRI: Nats at Reds, 7:10 p.m.
SAT: Nats at Reds, 4:05 p.m.
SUN: Nats at Reds, 1:10 p.m.
MON: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
TUE: Nats at Marlins, 7:10 p.m.
WED: Nats at Marlins, 12:40 p.m.
Full season schedule

Mark joins Rob Carlin and Joe Orsulak every Thursday at 4 p.m. on Comcast SportsNet for a half-hour show on the Nats, Orioles and rest of MLB. Re-airs Thursdays at 11:30 p.m., Saturdays at 9 a.m. and Sundays at 11:30 a.m.

ON THE RADIO

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MON: 12:45 p.m.
TUE: 2:30 p.m.
WED: 4:30 p.m.
THU: 2:30 p.m.
FRI: 1:30 p.m., 5:30 p.m.
SAT: 10:30 a.m.

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